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Thread started 10/27/18 11:33am

luvsexy4all

do u believe NOW??

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/painting-jesus-remains-untouched-150-year-old-church-burns-192420564.html

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Reply #1 posted 10/27/18 11:55am

EmmaMcG

That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.
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Reply #2 posted 10/27/18 2:20pm

toejam

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Well, Sinead O'Connor is a Muslim now. The gods are trying to outdo each other 😂
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #3 posted 10/27/18 3:39pm

IanRG

EmmaMcG said:

That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.

.

Why?

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Reply #4 posted 10/27/18 3:43pm

MoBettaBliss

EmmaMcG said:

That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.


lol

you're in good form of late

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Reply #5 posted 10/27/18 3:46pm

IanRG

luvsexy4all said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/painting-jesus-remains-untouched-150-year-old-church-burns-192420564.html

.

Our scout hall burned to the ground and the only thing left was the Bible. However, I don't believe that this is something to convert the unbeliever. It is somewhere between pure coincidence and a comfort for believers that may or may not be as a result of direct intervention. I note that the Church's website simply focuses on the rebuilding by saying:

.

"We know that we serve a God who specializes in restoring brokenness and who can bring beauty even from ashes. So we move into the future with trust, hope, and gratitude."

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Reply #6 posted 10/27/18 6:54pm

onlyforaminute

IanRG said:



luvsexy4all said:


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/painting-jesus-remains-untouched-150-year-old-church-burns-192420564.html



.


Our scout hall burned to the ground and the only thing left was the Bible. However, I don't believe that this is something to convert the unbeliever. It is somewhere between pure coincidence and a comfort for believers that may or may not be as a result of direct intervention. I note that the Church's website simply focuses on the rebuilding by saying:


.


"We know that we serve a God who specializes in restoring brokenness and who can bring beauty even from ashes. So we move into the future with trust, hope, and gratitude."




This.
"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #7 posted 10/27/18 8:18pm

lust

avatar

I remember in the tragic Christchurch earthquake here in New Zealand, home to the stunning old cathedral. About three buildings collapsed in the city and that was one of them!

Important for you to count the misses and not just the hits, yes?
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #8 posted 10/27/18 8:45pm

IanRG

lust said:

I remember in the tragic Christchurch earthquake here in New Zealand, home to the stunning old cathedral. About three buildings collapsed in the city and that was one of them! Important for you to count the misses and not just the hits, yes?

.

And selective memory is also something to be wary of. I have friends in Christchurch and it is the city in New Zealand that I have been in the most: Your memory is wrong.

.

From the city's library website:

Earthquake damage

Many stone and brick buildings in Christchurch were damaged. Up to 100,000 buildings were damaged and about 10,000 buildings needed to be demolished.

.

Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.

.

Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!

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Reply #9 posted 10/27/18 9:05pm

lust

avatar

IanRG said:



lust said:


I remember in the tragic Christchurch earthquake here in New Zealand, home to the stunning old cathedral. About three buildings collapsed in the city and that was one of them! Important for you to count the misses and not just the hits, yes?

.


And selective memory is also something to be wary of. I have friends in Christchurch and it is the city in New Zealand that I have been in the most: Your memory is wrong.


.


From the city's library website:




Earthquake damage



Many stone and brick buildings in Christchurch were damaged. Up to 100,000 buildings were damaged and about 10,000 buildings needed to be demolished.



.


Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.


.


Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!




eek “GOD BE PRAISED, A MIRACLE”

Reminds me of the “cross” on 9/11. Because two intersecting steel beams
amongst all that rubble had to be divine.

The point is, when disasters happen, things are destroyed and some things aren’t and that means that it’s inevitble that sometimes things with alleged meaning will be unscathed. It’s nothing more than statistics and confirmation bias.
[Edited 10/27/18 21:06pm]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #10 posted 10/27/18 9:23pm

IanRG

lust said:

IanRG said:

.

Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.

.

Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!

eek “GOD BE PRAISED, A MIRACLE” Reminds me of the “cross” on 9/11. Because two intersecting steel beams amongst all that rubble had to be divine. The point is, when disasters happen, things are destroyed and some things aren’t and that means that it’s inevitble that sometimes things with alleged meaning will be unscathed. It’s nothing more than statistics and confirmation bias. [Edited 10/27/18 21:06pm]

.

Shhh, I don't think anyone else noticed:

.

The difference between your claim of just 3 buildings when it was 10,000 buildings, or

.

That the Cathedral did not collapse and it is intended to be reopened when you said it collapsed, or

.

That the Church in the OP article was destroyed so no one is suffering from confirmation bias imaging the building was not destroyed, or

.

Virtually everyone really did understand that the two cross beams at Ground Zero were just two cross beams that reminded people of a cross and this is why they became a focal point, not a confirmational bias were people imagined the cross was made by God.

.

The problem with statistics is they can be manipulated by people to fit their beliefs - like 10,000 becomes 3, severely damaged but mostly standing becomes collapsed. You are just finding what matches your beliefs whilst accusing others of doing the same.

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Reply #11 posted 10/27/18 9:44pm

lust

avatar

IanRG said:



lust said:


IanRG said:


.


Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.


.


Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!



eek “GOD BE PRAISED, A MIRACLE” Reminds me of the “cross” on 9/11. Because two intersecting steel beams amongst all that rubble had to be divine. The point is, when disasters happen, things are destroyed and some things aren’t and that means that it’s inevitble that sometimes things with alleged meaning will be unscathed. It’s nothing more than statistics and confirmation bias. [Edited 10/27/18 21:06pm]

.


Shhh, I don't think anyone else noticed:


.


The difference between your claim of just 3 buildings when it was 10,000 buildings, or


.


That the Cathedral did not collapse and it is intended to be reopened when you said it collapsed, or


.


That the Church in the OP article was destroyed so no one is suffering from confirmation bias imaging the building was not destroyed, or


.


Virtually everyone really did understand that the two cross beams at Ground Zero were just two cross beams that reminded people of a cross and this is why they became a focal point, not a confirmational bias were people imagined the cross was made by God.


.


The problem with statistics is they can be manipulated by people to fit their beliefs - like 10,000 becomes 3, severely damaged but mostly standing becomes collapsed. You are just finding what matches your beliefs whilst accusing others of doing the same.






Ok, let’s start again. Do you believe that unscathed religious paintings and bibles
or still standing churches after hurricanes, fires and earthquakes are evidence of divine intervention?
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #12 posted 10/27/18 10:22pm

IanRG

lust said:

IanRG said:

.

Shhh, I don't think anyone else noticed:

.

The difference between your claim of just 3 buildings when it was 10,000 buildings, or

.

That the Cathedral did not collapse and it is intended to be reopened when you said it collapsed, or

.

That the Church in the OP article was destroyed so no one is suffering from confirmation bias imaging the building was not destroyed, or

.

Virtually everyone really did understand that the two cross beams at Ground Zero were just two cross beams that reminded people of a cross and this is why they became a focal point, not a confirmational bias were people imagined the cross was made by God.

.

The problem with statistics is they can be manipulated by people to fit their beliefs - like 10,000 becomes 3, severely damaged but mostly standing becomes collapsed. You are just finding what matches your beliefs whilst accusing others of doing the same.

Ok, let’s start again. Do you believe that unscathed religious paintings and bibles or still standing churches after hurricanes, fires and earthquakes are evidence of divine intervention?

.

I already answered this in my first post. I said "Our scout hall burned to the ground and the only thing left was the Bible. However, I don't believe that this is something to convert the unbeliever. It is somewhere between pure coincidence and a comfort for believers that may or may not be as a result of direct intervention."

.

As no one can say whether or not it is as a result of divine intervention, it cannot be proof.

.

Your assumption, arguably directed by the thread title, is that the painting of a person who inaccurately represents how Jesus would have looked being mirculously saved from the destroyed church is seen as evidence to prove God. Beliefs, including your's, are not solely the product of indisputable "proofs". God's answer to prayers is to help us to bear our crosses including the ravages of hurricanes, fires and earthquakes and other natural events and the consequences of life and how we live it. It is as the website of the the Church that lost its church building says: "We know that we serve a God who specializes in restoring brokenness and who can bring beauty even from ashes. So we move into the future with trust, hope, and gratitude."

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Reply #13 posted 10/28/18 4:10am

deebee

avatar

If He does indeed exist, and possesses these miraculous interventionist powers, I can think of better uses for them.

victims-grenfell.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C520

[Edited 10/28/18 4:16am]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #14 posted 10/28/18 6:45am

maplenpg

deebee said:

If He does indeed exist, and possesses these miraculous interventionist powers, I can think of better uses for them.

victims-grenfell.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C520

[Edited 10/28/18 4:16am]


Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.
It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #15 posted 10/28/18 8:36am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.

Doesn't prove that Jesus doesn't exist.

Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #16 posted 10/28/18 8:48am

13cjk13

SuperFurryAnimal said:

EmmaMcG said:

That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.

Doesn't prove that Jesus doesn't exist.

By their logic it does.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #17 posted 10/28/18 10:43am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Nothing Compares2 Allahhhh

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #18 posted 10/28/18 11:02am

lust

avatar

maplenpg said:

deebee said:

If He does indeed exist, and possesses these miraculous interventionist powers, I can think of better uses for them.

victims-grenfell.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C520

[Edited 10/28/18 4:16am]


Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.


Bingo. Either he doesn’t exist OR he does but doesn’t intervene because he can’t or doesn’t care OR can but he saves books about himself and paintings of his son but let’s this shit happen in which case he’s a massive cunt! In his defence,
I think it’s the former.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #19 posted 10/28/18 11:09am

2freaky4church
1

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Many times when there have been good sermons at my church or during the Euchorist you would have sun beams shine on the pulpit.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #20 posted 10/28/18 11:18am

maplenpg

2freaky4church1 said:

Many times when there have been good sermons at my church or during the Euchorist you would have sun beams shine on the pulpit.


Obviously proof that God exists then! I hope it happened in a dark stormy day?
It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #21 posted 10/28/18 11:19am

lust

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Many times when there have been good sermons at my church or during the Euchorist you would have sun beams shine on the pulpit.




eek wow.

To be fair, that’s pretty impressive and evidence at least of something very strange.

I mean, I’m assuming that you’d ruled out the expected position of the sun and the presence of a window as an explanation?
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #22 posted 10/28/18 11:23am

maplenpg

lust said:

maplenpg said:


Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.


Bingo. Either he doesn’t exist OR he does but doesn’t intervene because he can’t or doesn’t care OR can but he saves books about himself and paintings of his son but let’s this shit happen in which case he’s a massive cunt! In his defence,
I think it’s the former.

I'm going with the former too. He needs to do better than a ray of sunshine to convince me.
It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #23 posted 10/28/18 11:25am

EmmaMcG

13cjk13 said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:




EmmaMcG said:


That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.


Doesn't prove that Jesus doesn't exist.



By their logic it does.



Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.
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Reply #24 posted 10/28/18 11:48am

IanRG

EmmaMcG said:

13cjk13 said:

By their logic it does.

Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.

.

But other than the OP, who is arguing that? Not even the Church.

.

Being able to burn a picture does not prove a thing about the existance of what the picture is supposed to be of. This is poor science and failed logic.

.

You still have not answered why you have burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus.

[Edited 10/28/18 11:51am]

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Reply #25 posted 10/28/18 11:55am

lust

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

13cjk13 said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:




EmmaMcG said:


That proves nothing. I've burned hundreds of pictures of Jesus and they all went up in flames.


Doesn't prove that Jesus doesn't exist.



By their logic it does.



Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.


“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”
Christopher Hitchens.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #26 posted 10/28/18 12:19pm

onlyforaminute

I don't get what's being argued in here beyond everybody agreeing that a saved picture isn't evidence of divine intervention.
"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #27 posted 10/28/18 12:35pm

IanRG

lust said:

EmmaMcG said:
Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.
“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence” Christopher Hitchens.

.

As one of the most assertive people in recent media history, he certainly had no evidence and was often so easily dismissed by looking at the evidence.

.

My favourite was his assertion that Mother Teresa had nothing really to do because he looked out over Calcutta from his luxury hotel room long after the famines and wars and proclaimed that it was not so bad there.

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Reply #28 posted 10/28/18 12:46pm

lust

avatar

IanRG said:



lust said:


EmmaMcG said:
Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.

“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence” Christopher Hitchens.

.


As one of the most assertive people in recent media history, he certainly had no evidence and was often so easily dismissed by looking at the evidence.


.


My favourite was his assertion that Mother Teresa had nothing really to do because he looked out over Calcutta from his luxury hotel room long after the famines and wars and proclaimed that it was not so bad there.



Sounds like you’re trying to dismiss a valid quote about burden of proof with an ad hominem statement about it’s author. And let’s not go down the Teresa rabbit hole.

Perhaps you’re more amenable to Carl Sagan “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” or shall we rule that out because....turtle necks?!
[Edited 10/28/18 12:51pm]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #29 posted 10/28/18 2:51pm

Camileyun

lust said:

maplenpg said:


Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.


Bingo. Either he doesn’t exist OR he does but doesn’t intervene because he can’t or doesn’t care OR can but he saves books about himself and paintings of his son but let’s this shit happen in which case he’s a massive cunt! In his defence,
I think it’s the former.

Wow, remind me not to stand next to you during a lightening storm!
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