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Thread started 04/10/19 11:03pm

luv4u

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Texas lawmakers consider the death penalty for abortion

Posted Apr 09 2019 11:14AM PDT

Updated Apr 10 2019 11:15AM PD

AUSTIN, Texas - State legislators stayed up well into the morning hearing emotional testimony about a proposed abortion ban.


House Bill 896 would criminalize abortion and classify it as a homicide. Women who have abortions could be sentenced to the death penalty.



http://www.foxla.com/news...6dgxzknlLk


****************

Wow, just wow. smh disbelief

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Reply #1 posted 04/11/19 4:10am

OnlyNDaUsa

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I wonder where the idea that it was punishable by death? I am thinking they are making that up.

In Texas, homicide/murder alone is not a Capital offense. It requires either a special circumstance or some other felony. The amended bill as I read it made no such pronouncement. In fact, it specifically yates that the rights of the "child" are the same as "any other human child."

Now to the law itself. I think it starts too early and it way too vague and broad. I tend to go with restrictions (as allowed under every single SCOTUS ruling) at about 20-25 weeks.

It is also vague as to what constitutes conduct. And it has a weird thing it says the mother or care provider but not some other actor such as a husband who could caluse an abortion to occur.

Another thing it does make it possible for any miscarriage to be considered as a possible crime. It also creates the same disposal requirements.


But anyway: My verdict is this is not constitutional. Not only as it is contrary to Doe, Roe, and Pp V Casey, but for being overly vague as well as creates all sorts of possible issues.


Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #2 posted 04/11/19 4:35pm

poppys

Trump campaigned on jail time for women who had abortions.

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Reply #3 posted 04/11/19 4:52pm

luv4u

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poppys said:

Trump campaigned on jail time for women who had abortions.


It's takes 2 to make a baby. Maybe jail the man too lol


Women own their bodies and should have the right to decide.

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Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
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Reply #4 posted 04/11/19 5:08pm

poppys

luv4u said:

poppys said:

Trump campaigned on jail time for women who had abortions.


It's takes 2 to make a baby. Maybe jail the man too lol


Women own their bodies and should have the right to decide.

Agree.

The Repub Ohio Gov just signed a heartbeat law today. Around 6 weeks. And many other states have passed similar laws. They will be challenged in the courts though, thank goodness. It is so depressing to think we could lose our rights to choice after almost 50 years.

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Reply #5 posted 04/11/19 5:11pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

Trump campaigned on jail time for women who had abortions.

no he didn't

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #6 posted 04/11/19 7:05pm

PennyPurple

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luv4u said:


It's takes 2 to make a baby. Maybe jail the man too lol


Women own their bodies and should have the right to decide.

Now we know how that goes with the men. sad


Women's rights are always the 1st to go, personal, social, workforce.


Let's hope and pray Ruth Ginsburg makes it past Trump getting out of office.

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Reply #7 posted 04/11/19 7:13pm

2elijah

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luv4u said:



poppys said:


Trump campaigned on jail time for women who had abortions.




It's takes 2 to make a baby. Maybe jail the man too lol


Women own their bodies and should have the right to decide.


Agree 100%. Unfortunately in America, there’s a problem with many men who think they have ownership over a woman’s body. It makes you wonder what kind of women raise these type of men.
[Edited 4/11/19 19:29pm]
As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #8 posted 04/12/19 4:02am

cborgman

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



poppys said:


Trump campaigned on jail time for women who had abortions.





no he didn't



Yes and no. He didn’t specify jail time, but...


MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman.

TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What?

TRUMP: I don’t know. That I don’t know. That I don’t know.
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #9 posted 04/12/19 4:20am

OnlyNDaUsa

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cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

no he didn't

Yes and no. He didn’t specify jail time, but... MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle? TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. MATTHEWS: For the woman. TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form. MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What? TRUMP: I don’t know. That I don’t know. That I don’t know.

Not really! See, He was asked a very loaded question he was asked what the law should be and if it were a banned and it was a crime should a woman be punished if she has one... and He said Yes. But he did not say what the penalty ought to be...so what Poppys said was not true--not at all.


Which is not at all the same as running on jail time. The real error by Trump was even allowing Chris to go there.


(and weird how you show up! I saw a clip of Paul Lynde on the Hollywood Squares and I thought of you... good to see you)

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #10 posted 04/12/19 5:20am

benni

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cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

no he didn't

Yes and no. He didn’t specify jail time, but... MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle? TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. MATTHEWS: For the woman. TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form. MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What? TRUMP: I don’t know. That I don’t know. That I don’t know.


Yeah, but he walked that statement back several hours later after he received a HUGE backlash, even from anti-abortion groups. March For Life said that Trump was out of step with the pro-life movement, as their position was that they wanted what was best for both the mother and the baby.

After the backlash, Trump's campaign released a statement that said: "If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman," Trump said. "The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed -- like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."

Trump does that all of the time. I think he says originally what he his base believs should happen, but then when he faces backlash, especially from his base of supporters about something, he'll walk it back and say, "That's not what I meant to say." Trump himself has no solid beliefs about anything - it's just whatever is advantageous to him. And yet his base supports him. He's only using them, but they are too blinded to even realize that.


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Reply #11 posted 04/12/19 5:26am

benni

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My question about this is: Are they then going to supply birthcontrol to every man and woman in the state? I mean if they want to make sure that they are stopping this "crime", wouldn't they want to put in preventive measures first? Birth control isn't fool proof, but it would decrease unwanted pregnancies, pregnancies that are caused from rape and/or incest, etc. And does this mean that a man who rapes a woman, or commits incest against a family member, will be tried for murder, since they were the in strument through which a woman had to seek an abortion in the first place? And shouldn't men who have mistresses who force their mistress to get an abortion have to face the death penalty, since they are the ones encouraging the "crime", "paying for the crime", and essentially was the cause of the "crime" if they did not use a condom? I mean, if you are going to go so far as to open a woman up to facing the death penalty, should they not then take a step further and state that men who engage in sex without condoms should face the same penalty?

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Reply #12 posted 04/12/19 5:27am

poppys

Yeah because God forbid a Presidential candidate should have transparent views on abortion. He was asked if the punishment should be jail time and he didn't say no - as he should have.

Snopes gave it a 50/50, to cborgman's point.

As benni says, he walked it back after he got in trouble.

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Reply #13 posted 04/12/19 5:36am

poppys

benni said:

My question about this is: Are they then going to supply birthcontrol to every man and woman in the state? I mean if they want to make sure that they are stopping this "crime", wouldn't they want to put in preventive measures first? Birth control isn't fool proof, but it would decrease unwanted pregnancies, pregnancies that are caused from rape and/or incest, etc. And does this mean that a man who rapes a woman, or commits incest against a family member, will be tried for murder, since they were the in strument through which a woman had to seek an abortion in the first place? And shouldn't men who have mistresses who force their mistress to get an abortion have to face the death penalty, since they are the ones encouraging the "crime", "paying for the crime", and essentially was the cause of the "crime" if they did not use a condom? I mean, if you are going to go so far as to open a woman up to facing the death penalty, should they not then take a step further and state that men who engage in sex without condoms should face the same penalty?

All good points. Double standard.

Viagra and Cialis are covered by insurance. But pregnancy is a pre-existing condition. Pharmacists are allowed to refuse birth control to patients. The list goes on and on.

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Reply #14 posted 04/12/19 5:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

Yeah because God forbid a Presidential candidate should have transparent views on abortion. He was asked if the punishment should be jail time and he didn't say no - as he should have.

Snopes gave it a 50/50, to cborgman's point.

As benni says, he walked it back after he got in trouble.




So not what you said...
Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #15 posted 04/12/19 5:46am

Musicslave

poppys said:

Yeah because God forbid a Presidential candidate should have transparent views on abortion. He was asked if the punishment should be jail time and he didn't say no - as he should have.

Snopes gave it a 50/50, to cborgman's point.

As benni says, he walked it back after he got in trouble.

-

The manchild has absolutely no moral compass. He's the far right's dream of a president because he's caters to their long held poiltical desires and doesn't care about any repercussions. I've heard some of his supporters say that they've gotten more out of him than they did Reagan. Basically, "We know he's immoral but as long as he's doing what we want we don't care about anything else. All of the rest is just collateral damage but worth it."

-

He's their Lil Orange Puppet.

[Edited 4/12/19 6:08am]

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Reply #16 posted 04/12/19 5:49am

Musicslave

luv4u said:

Posted Apr 09 2019 11:14AM PDT

Updated Apr 10 2019 11:15AM PD

AUSTIN, Texas - State legislators stayed up well into the morning hearing emotional testimony about a proposed abortion ban.


House Bill 896 would criminalize abortion and classify it as a homicide. Women who have abortions could be sentenced to the death penalty.



http://www.foxla.com/news...6dgxzknlLk


****************

Wow, just wow. smh disbelief

-

This is very definition of hypocrisy! So in the name of preserving life, you're going to take life? I guess their stuck on "an eye for an eye."

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Reply #17 posted 04/12/19 6:03am

PennyPurple

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benni said:

cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: Yes and no. He didn’t specify jail time, but... MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle? TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. MATTHEWS: For the woman. TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form. MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What? TRUMP: I don’t know. That I don’t know. That I don’t know.


Yeah, but he walked that statement back several hours later after he received a HUGE backlash, even from anti-abortion groups. March For Life said that Trump was out of step with the pro-life movement, as their position was that they wanted what was best for both the mother and the baby.

After the backlash, Trump's campaign released a statement that said: "If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman," Trump said. "The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed -- like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."

Trump does that all of the time. I think he says originally what he his base believs should happen, but then when he faces backlash, especially from his base of supporters about something, he'll walk it back and say, "That's not what I meant to say." Trump himself has no solid beliefs about anything - it's just whatever is advantageous to him. And yet his base supports him. He's only using them, but they are too blinded to even realize that.


So hear we go, lock up the Drs, because the women have a choice and used it.

Fuck him.

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Reply #18 posted 04/12/19 6:06am

poppys

Texas is special. Notice the only texan on this thread said - I am thinking they are making that up - about what luv posted.

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Reply #19 posted 04/12/19 6:07am

PennyPurple

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benni said:

My question about this is: Are they then going to supply birthcontrol to every man and woman in the state? I mean if they want to make sure that they are stopping this "crime", wouldn't they want to put in preventive measures first? Birth control isn't fool proof, but it would decrease unwanted pregnancies, pregnancies that are caused from rape and/or incest, etc. And does this mean that a man who rapes a woman, or commits incest against a family member, will be tried for murder, since they were the in strument through which a woman had to seek an abortion in the first place? And shouldn't men who have mistresses who force their mistress to get an abortion have to face the death penalty, since they are the ones encouraging the "crime", "paying for the crime", and essentially was the cause of the "crime" if they did not use a condom? I mean, if you are going to go so far as to open a woman up to facing the death penalty, should they not then take a step further and state that men who engage in sex without condoms should face the same penalty?

We as women know that they are trying to stop the insurance companies from even covering the woman's birth control. BUT BUT BUT the insurance company will cover men's impotance meds.


It's always on the woman. It's my body, my choice.

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Reply #20 posted 04/12/19 6:15am

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

Texas is special. Notice the only texan on this thread said - I am thinking they are making that up - about what luv posted.



Yeah... I several media outlets seem to have gotten it wrong. Homicide in texas is not a death penalty crime unless there is a 2nd felony.
Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #21 posted 04/12/19 6:20am

poppys

PennyPurple said:

benni said:

My question about this is: Are they then going to supply birthcontrol to every man and woman in the state? I mean if they want to make sure that they are stopping this "crime", wouldn't they want to put in preventive measures first? Birth control isn't fool proof, but it would decrease unwanted pregnancies, pregnancies that are caused from rape and/or incest, etc. And does this mean that a man who rapes a woman, or commits incest against a family member, will be tried for murder, since they were the in strument through which a woman had to seek an abortion in the first place? And shouldn't men who have mistresses who force their mistress to get an abortion have to face the death penalty, since they are the ones encouraging the "crime", "paying for the crime", and essentially was the cause of the "crime" if they did not use a condom? I mean, if you are going to go so far as to open a woman up to facing the death penalty, should they not then take a step further and state that men who engage in sex without condoms should face the same penalty?


We as women know that they are trying to stop the insurance companies from even covering the woman's birth control. BUT BUT BUT the insurance company will cover men's impotance meds.


It's always on the woman. It's my body, my choice.


It goes to the core of what patriarchy is and means. We as women are not allowed to choose our own actions, including the consequences of those actions. That is how we learn and grow as humans. They want control over our bodies and our minds.

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Reply #22 posted 04/12/19 8:27am

2freaky4church
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Helping us make Texas blue, thanks GOP nuts.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #23 posted 04/12/19 4:53pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Helping us make Texas blue, thanks GOP nuts.

I believe it was blocked by a rep... again as I said I do not like the law.


I would say Ban them after *25 weeks with lost of medical licenses for any doctor convicted for doing one in violation.


* standard exceptions apply

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #24 posted 04/12/19 4:58pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

PennyPurple said:


We as women know that they are trying to stop the insurance companies from even covering the woman's birth control. BUT BUT BUT the insurance company will cover men's impotance meds.


It's always on the woman. It's my body, my choice.


It goes to the core of what patriarchy is and means. We as women are not allowed to choose our own actions, including the consequences of those actions. That is how we learn and grow as humans. They want control over our bodies and our minds.

or maybe it errors on the side of a separate life?

I am not sure why some (not saying you) people can not admit that at some point that clump of cells is a human.


We cry a river over that a man that tortured raped and murdered a child gets a painful execution... but a baby at 37 weeks can be ripped apart or if it happens to be born tossed in the garbage.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #25 posted 04/12/19 5:12pm

PennyPurple

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

poppys said:


It goes to the core of what patriarchy is and means. We as women are not allowed to choose our own actions, including the consequences of those actions. That is how we learn and grow as humans. They want control over our bodies and our minds.

or maybe it errors on the side of a separate life?

I am not sure why some (not saying you) people can not admit that at some point that clump of cells is a human.


We cry a river over that a man that tortured raped and murdered a child gets a painful execution... but a baby at 37 weeks can be ripped apart or if it happens to be born tossed in the garbage.

No, I am not for late term abortions at all, only for the 1st 12 weeks or less. Unless it's for the health of the mother or child and that is between them and their Dr.

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Reply #26 posted 04/12/19 5:25pm

luv4u

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PennyPurple said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

or maybe it errors on the side of a separate life?

I am not sure why some (not saying you) people can not admit that at some point that clump of cells is a human.


We cry a river over that a man that tortured raped and murdered a child gets a painful execution... but a baby at 37 weeks can be ripped apart or if it happens to be born tossed in the garbage.

No, I am not for late term abortions at all, only for the 1st 12 weeks or less. Unless it's for the health of the mother or child and that is between them and their Dr.



[Everyone please stay on topic ,thanks - luv4u]

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #27 posted 04/12/19 5:36pm

onlyforaminute

So what about embryos that get destroyed at in vitro labs that can't or will not be implanted? To me these battles have become so silly because there is so much more going on in today's world these platforms don't even acknowledge, its like they're stuck in a time bubble of belief that if they control this over here they're protecting something. But are they really? Like shoveling water out of the ocean.
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #28 posted 04/14/19 11:06am

2freaky4church
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Abortion on demand!

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #29 posted 04/14/19 12:09pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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onlyforaminute said:

So what about embryos that get destroyed at in vitro labs that can't or will not be implanted? To me these battles have become so silly because there is so much more going on in today's world these platforms don't even acknowledge, its like they're stuck in a time bubble of belief that if they control this over here they're protecting something. But are they really? Like shoveling water out of the ocean.

I have thought it would be cool if research companies could buy them in order to help cover the cost..but then demand for such would be lower than the demand for IVF.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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