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Thread started 07/23/19 8:30am

2freaky4church
1

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America, love it or leave it??

What does that even mean?

What America? If I hate Arizona am I a bad American? What if I like California? I love the Grand Canyon and the Painted Desert, am I a good American? It makes no sense. The term basically means conform to what white Americans believe or you have to leave? Love the Trump cult. I'd ask the right wingers, do they love the IRS? Do they love the Fed? Are they anti America? You have to love what elites do or you hate the country.

If you fight for better policy you hate the country? If we truly hated it wouldn't we want the country to fail? We want progress, they want to go back to when we were truly lame.

White right wingers don't own America. We are all one.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #1 posted 07/23/19 8:55am

RJOrion

i was with you, word for word ... until you said "we are all one"...clearly we are not...divided we stand...divided we will fall... history and prophecy bears witness to this...its sad, but it cant be prevented, because those in power throughout the world, dont want to prevent it
[Edited 7/23/19 12:09pm]
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Reply #2 posted 07/23/19 8:59am

RodeoSchro

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A true American would say, "If you don't love America, then you have the right to try and address the parts you don't like and make them better".

A Nazi/white nationalist/alt-right goon would say, "If you don't like it here, then leave". What's left unsaid is "And we're going to make you leave" but you know that's there.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #3 posted 07/23/19 12:03pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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With anything if you do not like it round here... maybe you would be happier someplace else. Many here say the US is not the best... well maybe you should move?

but as always we always have 3 and only 3 (please feel free to add more...but I have listed these for years and no one has ever given a 4th) Options!

1) Move...

2) suck it up butter cup

3) try to change it


I am seeing dummies come where I live from liberal states and then end up supporting the same failed ideas they left behind.

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #4 posted 07/23/19 12:09pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

A true American would say, "If you don't love America, then you have the right to try and address the parts you don't like and make them better".

A Nazi/white nationalist/alt-right goon would say, "If you don't like it here, then leave". What's left unsaid is "And we're going to make you leave" but you know that's there.


Wow? you know most other nations have a similar opinion... do you think Canada would just roll over and change itself? Or Mexico? Why should the US?

And but both are options... Why should I change How I Live to make you feel better... right? Do we not have the same rights? If what I am doing prevents you from doing what you want to do... then isn't that too bad? (and vice versa).

the only other option is to take no action.

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #5 posted 07/23/19 12:42pm

jjhunsecker

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What is it they say : Conservatives love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong.

Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to.

The child can never understand the adults point of view, because they lack the maturity
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Reply #6 posted 07/23/19 12:53pm

2elijah

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I believe it’s not about being American, it’s about being a fair and just human being, and not being afraid to call out America's injustices for the betterment of the people. There’s no reason for anyone to tell another American to leave the country because they question or expose America’s wrongs or question an elected official ‘s policies. To be silent, is to not care. Trump is just pissed off because he doesn’t like criticism, why? Because his ego can’t take anything negative said about him. So what does he do? He stoops low, and uses dirty tactics as an act of revenge, and resorts to doing things like, telling lies about the 4 Congresswomen, then tells them to leave the country, as though he has any authority to kick them out.
[Edited 7/23/19 12:57pm]
“Uncomfortable conversations creates change” — Anonymous
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Reply #7 posted 07/23/19 1:15pm

RodeoSchro

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

RodeoSchro said:

A true American would say, "If you don't love America, then you have the right to try and address the parts you don't like and make them better".

A Nazi/white nationalist/alt-right goon would say, "If you don't like it here, then leave". What's left unsaid is "And we're going to make you leave" but you know that's there.


Wow? you know most other nations have a similar opinion... do you think Canada would just roll over and change itself? Or Mexico? Why should the US?

And but both are options... Why should I change How I Live to make you feel better... right? Do we not have the same rights? If what I am doing prevents you from doing what you want to do... then isn't that too bad? (and vice versa).

the only other option is to take no action.



That is an idiotic post; perhpas the most idiotic I've read this year.

Take another break.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #8 posted 07/23/19 2:31pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

What is it they say : Conservatives love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong. Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to. The child can never understand the adults point of view, because they lack the maturity

yup libbers like to screw its people over... and wait if the mom is the conservative then the child must be the liberal...expecting everything for free!

I saw Conservats are like Lowe's "You can do it, we can help."

Liberals are "poor dear you're Victims I will take care of everything."

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #9 posted 07/23/19 2:34pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:


Wow? you know most other nations have a similar opinion... do you think Canada would just roll over and change itself? Or Mexico? Why should the US?

And but both are options... Why should I change How I Live to make you feel better... right? Do we not have the same rights? If what I am doing prevents you from doing what you want to do... then isn't that too bad? (and vice versa).

the only other option is to take no action.



That is an idiotic post; perhpas the most idiotic I've read this year.

Take another break.

LOL oh did you not like being corrected that most nations have the attitude of "this is they way we are." But I guess you are correct France and now Canada and the UK are trying to give into radical demands and it is going to cost them.

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #10 posted 07/23/19 3:08pm

TrivialPursuit

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Wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said dissent is the highest form of patriotism?

I think what people fail to separate is the American government verses the people who live in a section of the planet. America has always been about its people, society in general, not the fucking government. You can love where you live and not love the government that tries to manipulate it and run it.

People will sell their souls for their government, and lose their family and friends. Here's a tip: your family and friends will love you, the government doesn't care if you live or die. They want your money, and they want to manipulate you in every day possible.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #11 posted 07/23/19 3:18pm

IanRG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

With anything if you do not like it round here... maybe you would be happier someplace else. Many here say the US is not the best... well maybe you should move?

but as always we always have 3 and only 3 (please feel free to add more...but I have listed these for years and no one has ever given a 4th) Options!

1) Move...

2) suck it up butter cup

3) try to change it


I am seeing dummies come where I live from liberal states and then end up supporting the same failed ideas they left behind.

.

What you are missing is that "love or leave it" is not a list that anyone personally makes: It is a racist mantra primarily said as a demand by conservatives to seek to encourage others not like them to:

.

1) move away unless you love what they have done to the place,

2) fit in with how they want you to act which means if you are politically / racially / religiously / genderly etc matched to be one of them, enjoy the spoils, if not: suck it up buttercup, but stay in your place.

3) Don't you dare try to change it, just go.

[Edited 7/23/19 15:20pm]

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Reply #12 posted 07/23/19 3:31pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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jjhunsecker said:

What is it they say : Conservatives love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong. Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to. The child can never understand the adults point of view, because they lack the maturity

ehhh liberals are not perfect. And they push what they think is right too. All people who are liberals or vote democrat don't believe in everything their parties or alleged beliefs put forth.

Both consists of humans and all humans are flawed.

In NY state Cuomo is trying to make it so undocumented immigrants can get New York State liscences, A lot of liberals and Democrats disagree with this.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #13 posted 07/23/19 3:54pm

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

jjhunsecker said:

What is it they say : Conservatives love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong. Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to. The child can never understand the adults point of view, because they lack the maturity

ehhh liberals are not perfect. And they push what they think is right too. All people who are liberals or vote democrat don't believe in everything their parties or alleged beliefs put forth.

Both consists of humans and all humans are flawed.

In NY state Cuomo is trying to make it so undocumented immigrants can get New York State liscences, A lot of liberals and Democrats disagree with this.

.

Isn't that exactly what JJ is saying? An adult understanding would include an understanding that liberals or any political party is not perfect the way a child sees their mother.

.

The counter point to JJ's comment is that there are mature and immature people on both sides of politics at least at moderate levels. However, on both sides, there are blind followers and people who will see each issue as way to get an advantage over the other first and not for the good or bad of the points in the issue. It just seems that today there are many more people overlooking the faults with the rise of nationalist conservatives like trump than on the other sides.

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Reply #14 posted 07/23/19 3:59pm

RodeoSchro

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TrivialPursuit said:

Wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said dissent is the highest form of patriotism?

I think what people fail to separate is the American government verses the people who live in a section of the planet. America has always been about its people, society in general, not the fucking government. You can love where you live and not love the government that tries to manipulate it and run it.

People will sell their souls for their government, and lose their family and friends. Here's a tip: your family and friends will love you, the government doesn't care if you live or die. They want your money, and they want to manipulate you in every day possible.



Nazis don't want dissent; in fact, they don't stand for dissent. They tell you that if you dissent, then you don't love their country.

That's what we have here with unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump and his fans.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #15 posted 07/23/19 4:10pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

IanRG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ehhh liberals are not perfect. And they push what they think is right too. All people who are liberals or vote democrat don't believe in everything their parties or alleged beliefs put forth.

Both consists of humans and all humans are flawed.

In NY state Cuomo is trying to make it so undocumented immigrants can get New York State liscences, A lot of liberals and Democrats disagree with this.

.

Isn't that exactly what JJ is saying? An adult understanding would include an understanding that liberals or any political party is not perfect the way a child sees their mother.

.

The counter point to JJ's comment is that there are mature and immature people on both sides of politics at least at moderate levels. However, on both sides, there are blind followers and people who will see each issue as way to get an advantage over the other first and not for the good or bad of the points in the issue. It just seems that today there are many more people overlooking the faults with the rise of nationalist conservatives like trump than on the other sides.

No.

"Conservatives love America like a child..."


"Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to."

It is still an interesting viewpoint. And I think it can shed light on certain aspects of each group.

Your counter point is the same as mine, that both consists of humans and all humans are flawed.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #16 posted 07/23/19 4:15pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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My brother said he sees the Republican/Conservatives as 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' and Democrats/Liberals as 'let me put the boots on for you and lift you up'

He said he sees both examples as good when balanced. Both as bad when not.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #17 posted 07/23/19 4:50pm

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

My brother said he sees the Republican/Conservatives as 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' and Democrats/Liberals as 'let me put the boots on for you and lift you up'

He said he sees both examples as good when balanced. Both as bad when not.

.

I agree with this and the bottom half of your reply to me immediately above it.

.

Re the top half: I think you are taking the two clauses out of context: to love as a grown up is not to see perfection the way a child sees perfection in their mother. So when you say "ehhh liberals are not perfect." and JJ says liberals "don't let love blind you to their faults", then I can't see there is a fundamental difference between the two.

.

But, it is as you say: it needs to be balanced - once you stand for one side, especially at the extreme, you start excusing the inexcusable to benefit your side. This includes slogans like "love it or leave it" or "send them back" because they are so often racist or elitist in intent - In the West these are more often a conservative chant, in other places they may be from a side that considers themselves left wing.

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Reply #18 posted 07/23/19 6:51pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

IanRG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

My brother said he sees the Republican/Conservatives as 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' and Democrats/Liberals as 'let me put the boots on for you and lift you up'

He said he sees both examples as good when balanced. Both as bad when not.

.

I agree with this and the bottom half of your reply to me immediately above it.

.

Re the top half: I think you are taking the two clauses out of context: to love as a grown up is not to see perfection the way a child sees perfection in their mother. So when you say "ehhh liberals are not perfect." and JJ says liberals "don't let love blind you to their faults", then I can't see there is a fundamental difference between the two.

.

But, it is as you say: it needs to be balanced - once you stand for one side, especially at the extreme, you start excusing the inexcusable to benefit your side. This includes slogans like "love it or leave it" or "send them back" because they are so often racist or elitist in intent - In the West these are more often a conservative chant, in other places they may be from a side that considers themselves left wing.

I don't know what JJ is actually thinking, even though again it is a useful analogy.

.

1. Conservatives - children(immature) 2. Liberals - adults(mature)

My comments are to to say that liberals tend to look at others/treat others as children, not adults. One of the problems with the human species, is we keep raising adult children. Keep treating them as if they were 10 and needs mommy and daddy to come to the rescue.

.

That comment though was to 'Conservatives' not Liberals. "Conservatives, don't let love blind you to their(mothers) faults."

.

I can see it to how/where it comes from the left wing. In countries dealing with trying to protect it's culture/society while trying to be progressive. Also within subcultured groups within a country.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #19 posted 07/23/19 7:33pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/congregation-walks-out-of-service-amid-church-sign-controversy?fbclid=IwAR2YhThc4Bgtp6xyrUQh2WYPQVL7srr0vsYbzZHK9esAD6mUFpmV8qiqB3s

Congregation walks out of service amid church sign controversy


APPOMATTOX, Va (WSET) -- The congregation at a local church walked out of the service on Sunday, July 21.

A sign at a local church has gone viral in connection to President Trump's comments to Congresswomen.

Pastor E.W. Lucas put up the sign "America: Love it or leave it" at Friendship Baptist Church in Appomattox.

Some support his stance but he's also facing backlash from people across the country and from people in his own congregation.

Lucas says during the Sunday school service, some members of his church led the congregation out of the service in a stance against him.

He says members were upset with the national attention the church received.

Lucas says he stands behind his decision to keep the sign out front.

"I've tried to be honest," Lucas said. "I've tried to do what's right. But I believe in my country. I love my country. And I don't mind standing up for the country."

ABC13 reached out to several members of the church for a response. They told us they had no comment.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #20 posted 07/23/19 7:56pm

poppys

OldFriends4Sale said:

IanRG said:

.

Isn't that exactly what JJ is saying? An adult understanding would include an understanding that liberals or any political party is not perfect the way a child sees their mother.

.

The counter point to JJ's comment is that there are mature and immature people on both sides of politics at least at moderate levels. However, on both sides, there are blind followers and people who will see each issue as way to get an advantage over the other first and not for the good or bad of the points in the issue. It just seems that today there are many more people overlooking the faults with the rise of nationalist conservatives like trump than on the other sides.

No.

"Conservatives love America like a child..."


"Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to."

It is still an interesting viewpoint. And I think it can shed light on certain aspects of each group.

Your counter point is the same as mine, that both consists of humans and all humans are flawed.


You quoted/bolded only the first part of both sentences. It changes the context. Whether you agree with either statement is a separate matter, but the meaning is altered by leaving out the ends of the thoughts.

To me it's about the (broad) relationships conservatives and liberals have with their ideology. Not simply that one is a grown up and one is a child.

Conservatives love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong.

Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to.

[Edited 7/24/19 8:25am]

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Reply #21 posted 07/23/19 8:31pm

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

IanRG said:

.

I agree with this and the bottom half of your reply to me immediately above it.

.

Re the top half: I think you are taking the two clauses out of context: to love as a grown up is not to see perfection the way a child sees perfection in their mother. So when you say "ehhh liberals are not perfect." and JJ says liberals "don't let love blind you to their faults", then I can't see there is a fundamental difference between the two.

.

But, it is as you say: it needs to be balanced - once you stand for one side, especially at the extreme, you start excusing the inexcusable to benefit your side. This includes slogans like "love it or leave it" or "send them back" because they are so often racist or elitist in intent - In the West these are more often a conservative chant, in other places they may be from a side that considers themselves left wing.

I don't know what JJ is actually thinking, even though again it is a useful analogy.

.

1. Conservatives - children(immature) 2. Liberals - adults(mature)

My comments are to to say that liberals tend to look at others/treat others as children, not adults. One of the problems with the human species, is we keep raising adult children. Keep treating them as if they were 10 and needs mommy and daddy to come to the rescue.

.

That comment though was to 'Conservatives' not Liberals. "Conservatives, don't let love blind you to their(mothers) faults."

.

I can see it to how/where it comes from the left wing. In countries dealing with trying to protect it's culture/society while trying to be progressive. Also within subcultured groups within a country.

.

I don't know what JJ was actually thinking, I am responding to your denial of what he actually said.

.

In regards to the highlighted section: No, that is not what was said:

JJ said: "What is it they say : "

.

(1) "Conservatives [say] love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong.

.

(2) Liberals [say] love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to."

.

In one way this is perfectly correct and a natural consequence of the difference between someone who wants things to be conservative about change vs someone who wants to be progressive about change.

.

However, in this I agree with you that there are too many people that treat those they disagree with as if they are children. This is common to the left wing person who believes they are more "woke", the conspiracy theorist looking down on the sheeple and the right wing person target those being too snowflakey or PC.

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Reply #22 posted 07/23/19 8:37pm

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/congregation-walks-out-of-service-amid-church-sign-controversy?fbclid=IwAR2YhThc4Bgtp6xyrUQh2WYPQVL7srr0vsYbzZHK9esAD6mUFpmV8qiqB3s

Congregation walks out of service amid church sign controversy


APPOMATTOX, Va (WSET) -- The congregation at a local church walked out of the service on Sunday, July 21.

A sign at a local church has gone viral in connection to President Trump's comments to Congresswomen.

Pastor E.W. Lucas put up the sign "America: Love it or leave it" at Friendship Baptist Church in Appomattox.

Some support his stance but he's also facing backlash from people across the country and from people in his own congregation.

Lucas says during the Sunday school service, some members of his church led the congregation out of the service in a stance against him.

He says members were upset with the national attention the church received.

Lucas says he stands behind his decision to keep the sign out front.

"I've tried to be honest," Lucas said. "I've tried to do what's right. But I believe in my country. I love my country. And I don't mind standing up for the country."

ABC13 reached out to several members of the church for a response. They told us they had no comment.

.

Good on those who walked out.

.

The separation of church and state should mean that every Pastor should be a Pastor the whole of Jesus' flock, that the parable of the Good Samaritan was about our neighbour being everyone. National borders and political identities are state issues not church issues.

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Reply #23 posted 07/23/19 8:39pm

jjhunsecker

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IanRG said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




jjhunsecker said:


What is it they say : Conservatives love America like a child loves his mother... Mommy is perfect and she can never be wrong. Liberals love America like a grown up loves their spouse- you don't let love blind you to their faults, and you always want to see them be the best that they can be and improve when they need to. The child can never understand the adults point of view, because they lack the maturity


ehhh liberals are not perfect. And they push what they think is right too. All people who are liberals or vote democrat don't believe in everything their parties or alleged beliefs put forth.



Both consists of humans and all humans are flawed.

In NY state Cuomo is trying to make it so undocumented immigrants can get New York State liscences, A lot of liberals and Democrats disagree with this.



.


Isn't that exactly what JJ is saying? An adult understanding would include an understanding that liberals or any political party is not perfect the way a child sees their mother.


.


The counter point to JJ's comment is that there are mature and immature people on both sides of politics at least at moderate levels. However, on both sides, there are blind followers and people who will see each issue as way to get an advantage over the other first and not for the good or bad of the points in the issue. It just seems that today there are many more people overlooking the faults with the rise of nationalist conservatives like trump than on the other sides.



Look at issue with the driver's licenses: many undocumented aliens in NY State live in suburban and rural areas where there is little to no public transportation. A car is a necessity, and driving imperative. So undocumented immigrants are going to be driving no matter what. Isn't it better to make the pragmatic decision that they have driver's licenses than not ?
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Reply #24 posted 07/23/19 9:55pm

IanRG

jjhunsecker said:

IanRG said:

.

Isn't that exactly what JJ is saying? An adult understanding would include an understanding that liberals or any political party is not perfect the way a child sees their mother.

.

The counter point to JJ's comment is that there are mature and immature people on both sides of politics at least at moderate levels. However, on both sides, there are blind followers and people who will see each issue as way to get an advantage over the other first and not for the good or bad of the points in the issue. It just seems that today there are many more people overlooking the faults with the rise of nationalist conservatives like trump than on the other sides.

Look at issue with the driver's licenses: many undocumented aliens in NY State live in suburban and rural areas where there is little to no public transportation. A car is a necessity, and driving imperative. So undocumented immigrants are going to be driving no matter what. Isn't it better to make the pragmatic decision that they have driver's licenses than not ?

.

Yes, it is better to be realistic and adult about the situation.

.

But I am sure that there are pragmatic solutions applied by people from all sides of politics. Not all GOP supporters are subconsciously excusing trump - many are actively (and in my opinion wrongly) choosing a person that they know is far, far, far from perfect because they feel the alternative is worse.

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Reply #25 posted 07/24/19 8:03am

CherryMoon57

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I took the 'America, love it or leave it' to mean 'Be grateful for what you have and stop whinging, not every country in the world has it as easy as in the Western world. Take a trip around the world and then compare what you see there with what you had here.'

Not unlike the speech some parents should tell their ungrateful post-adolescent child if he/she started complaining about his/her life at home, all the while taking everything the parent(s) did for them for granted.

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #26 posted 07/24/19 8:06am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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2freaky4church1 said:

What does that even mean?

What America? If I hate Arizona am I a bad American? What if I like California? I love the Grand Canyon and the Painted Desert, am I a good American? It makes no sense. The term basically means conform to what white Americans believe or you have to leave? Love the Trump cult. I'd ask the right wingers, do they love the IRS? Do they love the Fed? Are they anti America? You have to love what elites do or you hate the country.

If you fight for better policy you hate the country? If we truly hated it wouldn't we want the country to fail? We want progress, they want to go back to when we were truly lame.

White right wingers don't own America. We are all one.

I wouldf say the country is based on respecting peoples freedom of speech including from weirdos like you.

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Reply #27 posted 07/24/19 8:27am

TrivialPursuit

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CherryMoon57 said:

I took the 'America, love it or leave it' to mean 'Be grateful for what you have and stop whinging, not every country in the world has it as easy as in the Western world. Take a trip around the world and then compare what you see there with what you had here.'

Not unlike the speech some parents should tell their ungrateful post-adolescent child if he/she started complaining about his/her life at home, all the while taking everything the parent(s) did for them for granted.


Well, that's a new one.

My statement is a general one, not directed at you; rather, your statement.

The sentiment lends to an illegitimate idea that the government has given you what you have and that you should just shut up and be grateful. It also subtly promotes non-thinking and a lack of individuality (on a more heady level).

It's typical U.S. arrogance to think every other country in the world is worse off than the United States; that we are the best. The U.S. has how many homeless people, plus homeless and uncared for veterans? How many below the poverty line forced into being on food stamps or other state-funded welfare? Which, by the way, is a welfare system fashioned to keep people dependent and impoverished, thereby robbing them of power which money seems to offer the rich. (Don't even get started on the opioid crisis, the drug war that targets people of color, racial profiling, white supremacy, white privilege, and sexism.)

Sure there are people worse off; there are also those who are better off who would laugh at someone's five-digit per year salary.

It's a simpleton's idea that only the U.S. has it good. It's also ignorant - meaning to lack knowledge - because it's simply untrue. Canadians would argue the U.S. is worse off than they are, on my levels. Hell, Monaco is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. Who's poor now?

It's about perspective, and many Americans lack a great deal of it.

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Reply #28 posted 07/24/19 8:34am

poppys

TrivialPursuit said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I took the 'America, love it or leave it' to mean 'Be grateful for what you have and stop whinging, not every country in the world has it as easy as in the Western world. Take a trip around the world and then compare what you see there with what you had here.'

Not unlike the speech some parents should tell their ungrateful post-adolescent child if he/she started complaining about his/her life at home, all the while taking everything the parent(s) did for them for granted.


Well, that's a new one.

My statement is a general one, not directed at you; rather, your statement.

The sentiment lends to an illegitimate idea that the government has given you what you have and that you should just shut up and be grateful. It also subtly promotes non-thinking and a lack of individuality (on a more heady level).

It's typical U.S. arrogance to think every other country in the world is worse off than the United States; that we are the best. The U.S. has how many homeless people, plus homeless and uncared for veterans? How many below the poverty line forced into being on food stamps or other state-funded welfare? Which, by the way, is a welfare system fashioned to keep people dependent and impoverished, thereby robbing them of power which money seems to offer the rich. (Don't even get started on the opioid crisis, the drug war that targets people of color, racial profiling, white supremacy, white privilege, and sexism.)

Sure there are people worse off; there are also those who are better off who would laugh at someone's five-digit per year salary.

It's a simpleton's idea that only the U.S. has it good. It's also ignorant - meaning to lack knowledge - because it's simply untrue. Canadians would argue the U.S. is worse off than they are, on my levels. Hell, Monaco is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. Who's poor now?

It's about perspective, and many Americans lack a great deal of it.


Agree. Just imagine what it would be like without 100 years of segregation - if education and jobs for all were on a level playing field in the first place. Keeping poor people poor is what gets legislated to keep the status quo on top. And then they play with the double whammy of shaming people for being poor.

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Reply #29 posted 07/24/19 8:38am

TrivialPursuit

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poppys said:


Agree. Just imagine what it would be like without 100 years of segregation - if education and jobs for all were on a level playing field in the first place. Keeping poor people poor is what gets legislated to keep the status quo on top. And then they play with the double whammy of shaming people for being poor.


Yeah, it's that hypocrisy of:

To a person without a job: "You could at least work at McDonald's until you find something better. Any money is something!"

To a person working at McDonald's: "You're flipping burgers for a living, how pathetic."

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