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Thread started 08/08/17 3:32pm

67Cadillac

Why Did Prince Keep Dr Fink After The Revolution Was Disbanded?

So I searched this forum for an answer, but couldn't find a thread that gave a detailed answer.

Basically, I'm curious as to why Matt (Doctor) Fink specifically was kept onboard after Prince dismissed the rest of the Revolution? My gut is telling me that it's because Fink was there from the band's initial inception, but so was Bobby Z. Was Fink just the best technical musician? Did Prince want at least one familiar face going forward so that audiences had someone to connect to in his new lineup? Did Prince feel a sense of loyalty to him in particular?

Also, have any of the other members made comments / expressed resentment at the time for Fink getting to stay onboard?

Sorry if this is an old topic, I genuinely couldn't find a thread dealing with the subject.

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Reply #1 posted 08/08/17 3:43pm

ForceofNature

Its never a bad thing to have the Doctor on call wink

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Reply #2 posted 08/08/17 3:48pm

PeteSilas

67Cadillac said:

So I searched this forum for an answer, but couldn't find a thread that gave a detailed answer.

Basically, I'm curious as to why Matt (Doctor) Fink specifically was kept onboard after Prince dismissed the rest of the Revolution? My gut is telling me that it's because Fink was there from the band's initial inception, but so was Bobby Z. Was Fink just the best technical musician? Did Prince want at least one familiar face going forward so that audiences had someone to connect to in his new lineup? Did Prince feel a sense of loyalty to him in particular?

Also, have any of the other members made comments / expressed resentment at the time for Fink getting to stay onboard?

Sorry if this is an old topic, I genuinely couldn't find a thread dealing with the subject.

I have wondered that, it's possibly because he was so good that Prince felt he needed him. I've read that once fink started losing his looks that Prince finally started thinking of replacing him. Or at least that was the insinuation. Brown Mark claimed that Prince gave him the option to stay too. Those two guys were probably good enough to remain. It has been said that Prince disbanded the revolution because they were limited as musicians, bobby z, Wendy definitely could be improved upon, Lisa seemed like she could hold it down but Prince was having major issues with wendy and lisa by the end of the revolution. Out of the entire band, wendy, lisa and Mark were disgruntled, bobby and matt seemed to be less so but matt has made a few statements about things getting "wierd" because Prince started hanging around his black buddies. Bobby has never said a cross word that I'm aware of and has always been highly complimentary of Prince. To tell the truth, i don't know why he kept fink, other than to guess that he was a super keyboardist.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #3 posted 08/08/17 5:29pm

TrivialPursuit

Fink goes way back with Prince; Bobby brought Fink in if memory serves.

Fink told me there was no real reason he stayed on. He wasn't fired, and Prince asked him if he wanted to stay after the Revolution disbanded. Of course, he said yes. If you think about it, quite a few from the counter-Revolution stayed on. Eric, Atlanta, Miko, Greg, Wally.

I don't think it was a sense of loyalty on Prince's part as much as a testament to Fink's ability on keyboards, programming, etc. He certainly had his work cut out for him because there while there was Boni for 2 years, she was hired more because of her voice. Her keyboard playing was rudimentary only in comparison to someone like Fink or Lisa. Not to say she couldn't play, but she was in the band for her voice, not being a virtuoso on 88-keys. Fink had never really caused waves, or mouthed off in interviews like W&L would, or had the disdain for the pay like Brownmark did for a while at the end (making a couple thousand on Hit N' Run, turning down a gig w/ Stevie Nicks for twice that, at least, as a touring musician).

Fink rehearsed the band a lot during the Nude Tour rehearsals, although I don't know his role for SOTT or Lovesexy tours. He did complain once, not harshly, that Prince always lit him poorly. Some of The Nude Tour footage makes it hard to find Fink at all, despite knowing where he's standing. After that, it was just time to go. He'd done all he could, and went to work at K-Tel (a Mpls company) for years.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #4 posted 08/08/17 6:27pm

motherfunka

Probably the same reason why he kept Morris Hayes for so long.

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Reply #5 posted 08/08/17 6:59pm

TrivialPursuit

motherfunka said:

Probably the same reason why he kept Morris Hayes for so long.


Morris is such a stellar player, although he did leave the band for a while. Fink said Morris told him he left "because of the religion thing" aka Prince's Jehovah's Witness dogma and requiring all of his band to be converted as well (or damn near to it). If that's true, then Prince obviously relaxes his New World Translation thumpin' a bit to get Morris back into the band. I never dug Renato's vibe w/ Prince's music, and that pseudo jazzy shit he injected into stuff like "Baby I'm A Star" or whatever. Morris was a more desirable bandmate, for me.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #6 posted 08/08/17 7:18pm

laytonian

Fink wasn't competition; wendy and Lisa became competitive, up-front, recognizable stars.
Also, P had broken up with Susanna which made things awkward.
I think P wanted to go back to his one-man band persona.
.
We had fun, didn't we?
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Reply #7 posted 08/08/17 7:21pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Possibly because finding someone new who knew all of Prince's music from 1978 was going to be impossible.

Fink was hardcore on the keyboards too.


BrownMark was asked to continue as well.

Prince fired Jerome Benton as well.

Dr Fink was out of the band when he got married, Prince just sorta forgot to tell him.

The 'black friends' thing is interesting. I doubt that Dr Fink had a problem with 'black folk'.

But it seems Prince's treatement of him was weird as a result. I think by this point him making fun of Fink and Miko (as he did Boni) in front of people 'clowning them' even in front of Finks mother and family was probably over the top. I remember some Lovesexy rehearsals where he would just make fun of things with Miko like his shoes having the lighting guy put the spot light on his shoes while Miko just wanted to know where to stand.

Fink & Miko by the end of the Nude tour had both said the new band members felt 'entititled', that they would be one way when Prince was around, and different when he wasn't. Fink said those other guys never talked to him about assimilating into the band. 'He was the senior musician after all'
At the end both pretty much said it just wasn't the same anymore.

The 1986/87-1990 changing of the guard has always been a very interesting dynamic.

I knew back then when he disbanded the Revolution, that this next band wouldn't be there much longer. I loved them and got attached quickly. Even though I knew most from the 1984-1986 periods. outside of Cat and Boni. I was still shocked by early 89 it was over.

Sheila E, Cat, Boni, Gregory, Wally, Eric, Atlanta Bliss

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #8 posted 08/08/17 8:02pm

803

laytonian said:

Fink wasn't competition; wendy and Lisa became competitive, up-front, recognizable stars.
Also, P had broken up with Susanna which made things awkward.
I think P wanted to go back to his one-man band persona.
.



Am I wrong to think that Susannah stayed on beyond the break up. I read that she left in december, 1986.
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Reply #9 posted 08/08/17 8:43pm

joyinrepetitio
n

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I remember reading back in the day Fink was upset that he wasn't in Grafitti Bridge-the movie. Prince had Fink programming the keyboards for the upcoming Nude Tour at the time of filming. And as someone mentioned above, when Fink got married, Prince brought in Tommy Barbarella and told Fink his services weren't needed anymore. I also read that Fink was pretty upset about that too.

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
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Reply #10 posted 08/08/17 8:43pm

laytonian

803 said:

laytonian said:

Fink wasn't competition; wendy and Lisa became competitive, up-front, recognizable stars.
Also, P had broken up with Susanna which made things awkward.
I think P wanted to go back to his one-man band persona.
.




Am I wrong to think that Susannah stayed on beyond the break up. I read that she left in december, 1986.

.
Things were headed down with them and she was spilling her woes to W&L. It's like he was breaking up with all. They either all had to be together or not at all.
We had fun, didn't we?
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Reply #11 posted 08/08/17 9:34pm

imprimis

The Revolution came with a necessarily limited shelf life. The expansive fiction of anything beyond a touring band and occasional studio assist is generally not compatible with P's way of doing business.

.

That he permitted it, and encouraged it as long as he did, is chiefly the product of the once-in-a-lifetime improbably high success of PR.

.

An eventual correction was in due order, whether or not that was prompted by mixing business with pleasure.

.

[Edited 8/8/17 21:43pm]

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Reply #12 posted 08/08/17 9:51pm

PeteSilas

TrivialPursuit said:

Fink goes way back with Prince; Bobby brought Fink in if memory serves.

Fink told me there was no real reason he stayed on. He wasn't fired, and Prince asked him if he wanted to stay after the Revolution disbanded. Of course, he said yes. If you think about it, quite a few from the counter-Revolution stayed on. Eric, Atlanta, Miko, Greg, Wally.

I don't think it was a sense of loyalty on Prince's part as much as a testament to Fink's ability on keyboards, programming, etc. He certainly had his work cut out for him because there while there was Boni for 2 years, she was hired more because of her voice. Her keyboard playing was rudimentary only in comparison to someone like Fink or Lisa. Not to say she couldn't play, but she was in the band for her voice, not being a virtuoso on 88-keys. Fink had never really caused waves, or mouthed off in interviews like W&L would, or had the disdain for the pay like Brownmark did for a while at the end (making a couple thousand on Hit N' Run, turning down a gig w/ Stevie Nicks for twice that, at least, as a touring musician).

Fink rehearsed the band a lot during the Nude Tour rehearsals, although I don't know his role for SOTT or Lovesexy tours. He did complain once, not harshly, that Prince always lit him poorly. Some of The Nude Tour footage makes it hard to find Fink at all, despite knowing where he's standing. After that, it was just time to go. He'd done all he could, and went to work at K-Tel (a Mpls company) for years.

k-tel? you mean that cheap record company that used to sell crappy compilations? surely not the same.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #13 posted 08/09/17 12:44am

nonesuch

TrivialPursuit said:

motherfunka said:

Probably the same reason why he kept Morris Hayes for so long.


Morris is such a stellar player, although he did leave the band for a while. Fink said Morris told him he left "because of the religion thing" aka Prince's Jehovah's Witness dogma and requiring all of his band to be converted as well (or damn near to it). If that's true, then Prince obviously relaxes his New World Translation thumpin' a bit to get Morris back into the band. I never dug Renato's vibe w/ Prince's music, and that pseudo jazzy shit he injected into stuff like "Baby I'm A Star" or whatever. Morris was a more desirable bandmate, for me.

How dare you downgrade Renato Neto's classy musicianship! He was by far the most unique sounding musician Prince ever worked with.

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Reply #14 posted 08/09/17 1:06am

SoulAlive

I recall hearing back then,that Prince angrily fired Jerome after he saw him in Janet Jackson's "Control" video.In those days,Prince didn't like his artists working outside the camp nuts

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince fired Jerome Benton as well.

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Reply #15 posted 08/09/17 1:19am

novabrkr

Synth parts are trickier to learn than guitar and bass parts due to the spefic patches needed for them. You're also often going to need a specific synth to perform them on. Fink was already familiar with the parts and the gear.

In the 80s synths changed a lot. They could do completely different things from each other, but typically, they didn't cover that much common sonic ground. You had to have a pile of synths on stage to be able to do different songs from different eras.

People are still scratching their heads on synth forums on how to replicate the sounds Prince used back in the day.

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Reply #16 posted 08/09/17 2:07am

robertgeorge

PeteSilas said:

k-tel? you mean that cheap record company that used to sell crappy compilations? surely not the same.


The very same. I bought a K-tel Beatles compilation because it was dirt cheap 2nd hand and had Dr Fink as the artist. He took a lot of Beatles songs and made it into a medley. It had one song that was a little different, but generally, it was bland and workmanlike. It was a disappointment, but I think he would be constrained by the label and the time. It was professional but unremarkable. Very much like how Prince felt about being a human jukebox when he had to play covers for parties back in his high school days.

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Reply #17 posted 08/09/17 3:23am

PeteSilas

nonesuch said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Morris is such a stellar player, although he did leave the band for a while. Fink said Morris told him he left "because of the religion thing" aka Prince's Jehovah's Witness dogma and requiring all of his band to be converted as well (or damn near to it). If that's true, then Prince obviously relaxes his New World Translation thumpin' a bit to get Morris back into the band. I never dug Renato's vibe w/ Prince's music, and that pseudo jazzy shit he injected into stuff like "Baby I'm A Star" or whatever. Morris was a more desirable bandmate, for me.

How dare you downgrade Renato Neto's classy musicianship! He was by far the most unique sounding musician Prince ever worked with.

i'm a keyboardist so i loved renato, i was always surprised how people talked about him here, but that's just Prince's fans, see my sig...

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #18 posted 08/09/17 3:25am

PeteSilas

joyinrepetition said:

I remember reading back in the day Fink was upset that he wasn't in Grafitti Bridge-the movie. Prince had Fink programming the keyboards for the upcoming Nude Tour at the time of filming. And as someone mentioned above, when Fink got married, Prince brought in Tommy Barbarella and told Fink his services weren't needed anymore. I also read that Fink was pretty upset about that too.

fuck, he should have been thankful. I read that around that time prince made some remark about how fink should be locked in closet or something because he was getting chunky and old looking.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #19 posted 08/09/17 3:28am

PeteSilas

one other interesting thing, in one of Prince's last interviews, one he demanded be pulled, he said fink couldn't improvise, i was surprised by that, i assumed matt was just such a great keyboardist he had that down. musicians are like that though, like duke ellington said, you can have the greatest concert violinist in the world and there are a lot of things that they can't do. Don't try to tell a musician that though, they are so fucking insecure that they get insulted if you even ask them if they can do this or that.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #20 posted 08/09/17 3:29am

PeteSilas

robertgeorge said:

PeteSilas said:

k-tel? you mean that cheap record company that used to sell crappy compilations? surely not the same.


The very same. I bought a K-tel Beatles compilation because it was dirt cheap 2nd hand and had Dr Fink as the artist. He took a lot of Beatles songs and made it into a medley. It had one song that was a little different, but generally, it was bland and workmanlike. It was a disappointment, but I think he would be constrained by the label and the time. It was professional but unremarkable. Very much like how Prince felt about being a human jukebox when he had to play covers for parties back in his high school days.

hmm, that's what he did for them huh. thanks.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #21 posted 08/09/17 6:17am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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803 said:

laytonian said:
Fink wasn't competition; wendy and Lisa became competitive, up-front, recognizable stars. Also, P had broken up with Susanna which made things awkward. I think P wanted to go back to his one-man band persona. .
Am I wrong to think that Susannah stayed on beyond the break up. I read that she left in december, 1986.

Yeah, she left December or January.

That peach outfit Cat wore, was Susannah's originally.

She continued recording vocals with Prince after October

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #22 posted 08/09/17 6:22am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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SoulAlive said:

I recall hearing back then,that Prince angrily fired Jerome after he saw him in Janet Jackson's "Control" video.In those days,Prince didn't like his artists working outside the camp nuts

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince fired Jerome Benton as well.

Yeah, Jerome said he would never side against family. So he was out.

.

I think the thing with Fink as the last to go so to speak was he was the last representive of what Prince later called a 'community'

Possibly in trying to 'reinvent' himself, Prince removing people tied to his beginnings starting in 1986-1990.

.

Atlanta Bliss retired after Lovesexy 1989

Boni Boyer ran to Australia

Cat ran to Europe

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #23 posted 08/09/17 6:29am

steakfinger

PeteSilas said:

one other interesting thing, in one of Prince's last interviews, one he demanded be pulled, he said fink couldn't improvise, i was surprised by that, i assumed matt was just such a great keyboardist he had that down. musicians are like that though, like duke ellington said, you can have the greatest concert violinist in the world and there are a lot of things that they can't do. Don't try to tell a musician that though, they are so fucking insecure that they get insulted if you even ask them if they can do this or that.



Matt Fink is a great improviser. I've worked with him before and he improvised his ass off.
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Reply #24 posted 08/09/17 6:40am

pdiddy2011

steakfinger said:

PeteSilas said:

one other interesting thing, in one of Prince's last interviews, one he demanded be pulled, he said fink couldn't improvise, i was surprised by that, i assumed matt was just such a great keyboardist he had that down. musicians are like that though, like duke ellington said, you can have the greatest concert violinist in the world and there are a lot of things that they can't do. Don't try to tell a musician that though, they are so fucking insecure that they get insulted if you even ask them if they can do this or that.

Matt Fink is a great improviser. I've worked with him before and he improvised his ass off.

You may very well be right, but that doesn't mean he could improvise the way the bandleader (Prince) wanted it done.

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Reply #25 posted 08/09/17 6:52am

jjam

That Prince quote about Fink not being able to improvise sounds like the purple one being petulant and far from truthful.

And er Renato, I'd call him Dr Noodles. Definitely my least favourite keys player that Prince ever used.

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Reply #26 posted 08/09/17 1:56pm

PeteSilas

steakfinger said:

PeteSilas said:

one other interesting thing, in one of Prince's last interviews, one he demanded be pulled, he said fink couldn't improvise, i was surprised by that, i assumed matt was just such a great keyboardist he had that down. musicians are like that though, like duke ellington said, you can have the greatest concert violinist in the world and there are a lot of things that they can't do. Don't try to tell a musician that though, they are so fucking insecure that they get insulted if you even ask them if they can do this or that.

Matt Fink is a great improviser. I've worked with him before and he improvised his ass off.

i believe you, i wonder why prince said that.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #27 posted 08/09/17 2:26pm

TheFman

PeteSilas said:

nonesuch said:

How dare you downgrade Renato Neto's classy musicianship! He was by far the most unique sounding musician Prince ever worked with.

i'm a keyboardist so i loved renato, i was always surprised how people talked about him here, but that's just Prince's fans, see my sig...

It was unlistenable; i literally stopped listening to any live music where Neto would butcher the next Prince song. Like what he did with Pop Life, omg.

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Reply #28 posted 08/09/17 2:34pm

PeteSilas

TheFman said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm a keyboardist so i loved renato, i was always surprised how people talked about him here, but that's just Prince's fans, see my sig...

It was unlistenable; i literally stopped listening to any live music where Neto would butcher the next Prince song. Like what he did with Pop Life, omg.

you're tripping, how about the version of gotta broken heart agian on the ona dvd?

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #29 posted 08/09/17 2:35pm

PeteSilas

pdiddy2011 said:

steakfinger said:

PeteSilas said: Matt Fink is a great improviser. I've worked with him before and he improvised his ass off.

You may very well be right, but that doesn't mean he could improvise the way the bandleader (Prince) wanted it done.

that's what i'm thinking.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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