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Thread started 03/13/18 11:53am

TrivialPursuit

Deliverance EP appreciation thread

It's been on my shuffle lately and I can't help but think it's some of Prince's best material. I'm not sure anymore of the story behind why it was recorded with this person or the ultimate intentions for the songs. But they are so stellar. For me, it lacks the flattened acrylic production he adopted in the aughts and beyond. There's a band-recording feel to it, an openness and genuine vibe throughout the tracks.

It's the Prince I wish was more evident in the last 20 years than some of the things we've gotten. not that they were bad (I'm not here to debate 3121 vs. Musicology or whatever). I just love the almost-Chaos and Disorder rawness of this EP.

Since it's been out a while, any new thoughts on it?

What do you think its future will be in Princetory?

Will it see a more proper and fully realized release (ie: as part of a larger intended set), or will it be forever what we know it as right now?

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #1 posted 03/13/18 1:13pm

coldasice

You do realize P is only on lead vocals and some guitar right?
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Reply #2 posted 03/13/18 1:23pm

djThunderfunk

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coldasice said:

You do realize P is only on lead vocals and some guitar right?


Has this been confirmed? PrinceVault still credits all the tracks as Prince on "all vocals and instruments (assumed)" except for The Twinz vocals on the title track.

To be clear, I've always assumed this wasn't accurate and that Boxill probably added more to finish them than PrinceVault is "assuming", but I don't remember seeing confirmation anywhere.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #3 posted 03/13/18 1:37pm

TheDigitalGard
ener

TrivialPursuit said:

It's been on my shuffle lately and I can't help but think it's some of Prince's best material. I'm not sure anymore of the story behind why it was recorded with this person or the ultimate intentions for the songs. But they are so stellar. For me, it lacks the flattened acrylic production he adopted in the aughts and beyond. There's a band-recording feel to it, an openness and genuine vibe throughout the tracks.

It's the Prince I wish was more evident in the last 20 years than some of the things we've gotten. not that they were bad (I'm not here to debate 3121 vs. Musicology or whatever). I just love the almost-Chaos and Disorder rawness of this EP.

Since it's been out a while, any new thoughts on it?

What do you think its future will be in Princetory?

Will it see a more proper and fully realized release (ie: as part of a larger intended set), or will it be forever what we know it as right now?

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Reply #4 posted 03/13/18 1:48pm

TheDigitalGard
ener

The title track is great. Probably one of the very few songs I've genuinely liked since the Lotus era, and I don't care if it's a little or all Prince playing. Would've been cool if he'd kept it on Lotus or replaced The Morning After with it on the digital version.

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Reply #5 posted 03/13/18 2:04pm

TrivialPursuit

coldasice said:

You do realize P is only on lead vocals and some guitar right?


I never claimed anything he played on it or not.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #6 posted 03/13/18 2:10pm

Marco81

See the affidavit regarding what Boxill did to the tracks.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3673521-Affidavit-Boxill-Notarized.html

No one should do what he did, by just "feeling" it.

Hopefully we will hear the original tracks at some point, with the original chorus with the Twinz (Mathieu Bitton confirmed he has or heard the original version, so they could be out there).

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Reply #7 posted 03/13/18 2:48pm

TrivialPursuit

Marco81 said:

See the affidavit regarding what Boxill did to the tracks.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3673521-Affidavit-Boxill-Notarized.html

No one should do what he did, by just "feeling" it.

Hopefully we will hear the original tracks at some point, with the original chorus with the Twinz (Mathieu Bitton confirmed he has or heard the original version, so they could be out there).


And the thing is, anyone can have anything notarized. It's not that much of a solid legal document compared to other things. People can lie to the notary as much as they can lie to a judge or the public.

All that said, I'm with you. I would love to hear the originals. Did Boxill take out Prince stuff and put in his own to have a larger pseudo-claim to them? He's obviously shifty. The estate needs to get the originals back and put them out, if possible.

As far as the EP: the only sin with it is that some of the songs are just too short. I can't believe there aren't longer versions of the middle section. It's so fucking great.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #8 posted 03/13/18 5:18pm

bsprout

I love it and find it moving.
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Reply #9 posted 03/13/18 6:24pm

jdcxc

Does anyone know the history of how this project came about? It’s so different from his work style. I also think it is very interesting musically...I Am is the jam.
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Reply #10 posted 03/13/18 7:10pm

luv4u

Moderator

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Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #11 posted 03/13/18 7:59pm

gandorb

The Deliverence EP has the originality and vitality of his best work. It makes me wonder what else is out there!

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Reply #12 posted 03/14/18 1:27am

laurarichardso
n

TrivialPursuit said:

It's been on my shuffle lately and I can't help but think it's some of Prince's best material. I'm not sure anymore of the story behind why it was recorded with this person or the ultimate intentions for the songs. But they are so stellar. For me, it lacks the flattened acrylic production he adopted in the aughts and beyond. There's a band-recording feel to it, an openness and genuine vibe throughout the tracks.

It's the Prince I wish was more evident in the last 20 years than some of the things we've gotten. not that they were bad (I'm not here to debate 3121 vs. Musicology or whatever). I just love the almost-Chaos and Disorder rawness of this EP.

Since it's been out a while, any new thoughts on it?


What do you think its future will be in Princetory?


Will it see a more proper and fully realized release (ie: as part of a larger intended set), or will it be forever what we know it as right now?


—— Sorry this music was stolen and altered by an engineer. Ian had no business putting his mitts on this music. Maybe the estate will put it out one day but just the fact that Ian messed with the tracks puts me off.
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Reply #13 posted 03/14/18 1:29am

laurarichardso
n

TrivialPursuit said:



coldasice said:


You do realize P is only on lead vocals and some guitar right?


I never claimed anything he played on it or not.


—Well That is the problem with the whole project
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Reply #14 posted 03/14/18 8:06am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

Marco81 said:

See the affidavit regarding what Boxill did to the tracks.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3673521-Affidavit-Boxill-Notarized.html

No one should do what he did, by just "feeling" it.

Hopefully we will hear the original tracks at some point, with the original chorus with the Twinz (Mathieu Bitton confirmed he has or heard the original version, so they could be out there).



I wonder how Mathieu heard the original tracks?

Maybe by his association with Lenny, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, and others?

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Reply #15 posted 03/14/18 9:38am

laurarichardso
n

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Marco81 said:

See the affidavit regarding what Boxill did to the tracks.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3673521-Affidavit-Boxill-Notarized.html

No one should do what he did, by just "feeling" it.

Hopefully we will hear the original tracks at some point, with the original chorus with the Twinz (Mathieu Bitton confirmed he has or heard the original version, so they could be out there).



I wonder how Mathieu heard the original tracks?

Maybe by his association with Lenny, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, and others?

Mathieu Bitton - he claims he did some work for Prince so he may have heard when he was working for him.

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Reply #16 posted 03/14/18 12:16pm

luvsexy4all

gandorb said:

The Deliverence EP has the originality and vitality of his best work. It makes me wonder what else is out there!

i agree

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Reply #17 posted 03/14/18 12:28pm

coldasice

TrivialPursuit said:



coldasice said:


You do realize P is only on lead vocals and some guitar right?


I never claimed anything he played on it or not.


I was just saying...if people give that stuff credit...it’ll only be a matter of time before Skeleton song fragments are being finished by others. Usually Prince fans don’t want others touching his stuff.
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Reply #18 posted 03/14/18 12:30pm

coldasice

luvsexy4all said:



gandorb said:


The Deliverence EP has the originality and vitality of his best work. It makes me wonder what else is out there!



i agree


Yet, it wasn’t out there. Taking a fragment and finishing it after he died doesn’t make it a vault track. It’s a Boxill track featuring Prince. Fact love it or hate it, but be careful what you wish for.
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Reply #19 posted 03/14/18 12:35pm

coldasice

Princevault says they are overdubbed unofficial remixes of the actual songs. Just wait till the Pharrell Williams Remix of Rebirth of The Flesh...lol. Don’t think that’s too far fetched.
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Reply #20 posted 03/14/18 12:50pm

luvsexy4all

if u take his voice and gutiar playing from the tracks..u still have his greatness

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Reply #21 posted 03/14/18 1:28pm

recordmanben

Interesting reading both sides of this coin.
In my opinion Ian does own some intellectual property of these songs and in some degree owns the right to do what he wishes with songs as much as Prince would have.
He was the engineer, he has posession of the tapes rightfully and he was working on the material just as much as Prince was.
He screwed up by not telling the estate and working with them to get this material out as a Prince release. I'm sure nobody would have said much if it came out under the Engineers name featuring Prince.

[Edited 3/14/18 13:29pm]

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Reply #22 posted 03/14/18 1:53pm

jdcxc

luvsexy4all said:

if u take his voice and gutiar playing from the tracks..u still have his greatness



Lol...so true. We have such crazy expectations of his multi-talented rare genius. Springsteen, Beyonce, MJ, Bowie, etc have all had top producers, session musicians, writers, soundsmiths throughout their whole careers.
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Reply #23 posted 03/14/18 1:58pm

SchlomoThaHomo

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I think the whole thing is great, and up there with his best, and I’m glad it was released in time to commemorate his passing a year later.

In my head, the band is the Cora/Josh configuration but maybe that’s false. Whoever it is, they’re killing it in all aspects.

I don’t think it sounds like anything but Prince music (from the F.U.N.K. era), so anything Ian did to the tracks is tasteful, and in line with what Prince would do.
"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #24 posted 03/14/18 4:50pm

TheEnglishGent

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I like the whole thing, sounds great.

RIP sad
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Reply #25 posted 03/14/18 10:05pm

Tangerine17

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



Marco81 said:


See the affidavit regarding what Boxill did to the tracks.


https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3673521-Affidavit-Boxill-Notarized.html



No one should do what he did, by just "feeling" it.



Hopefully we will hear the original tracks at some point, with the original chorus with the Twinz (Mathieu Bitton confirmed he has or heard the original version, so they could be out there).





I wonder how Mathieu heard the original tracks?


Maybe by his association with Lenny, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, and others?


Actually, it has nothing to do with any of my friends/collaborators that you listed although they were all friends with Prince. I actually got some CDs back in 06 that were early configurations of Lotusflow3r, Planet Earth and 3121 when I was working on Ultimate, When 2 R In Love and some other secret projects. Of course I’ve never copied them but I can attest to the fact that Boxil did overdubs on the original tracks but those are Prince’s tracks on Boxil’s version. He just added background vocals and some keyboard strings and things. Hope this helps.
[Edited 3/14/18 22:14pm]
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Reply #26 posted 03/14/18 10:30pm

databank

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If (and I say "if" as I cannot verify this) Ian Boxill indeed co-authored and co-arranged the songs he has a certain legitimacy when it comes to "finishing" them, in the sense that they're as much "his" as Prince's, even if Prince legally owned the masters from the fact that he paid for the sessions and that Ian was contractually tied to him as a session musician. In that sense, the "finishing" would be more legitimate than any posthumous remix.

.

Regardless, as a Prince fan, I'd rather hear the tracks as Prince left them, because it is quite uncertain that he'd have approved of those final mixes as they are, and I want his work to be left untouched. In a similar way, I wouldn't like the Revolution or any past bandmembers to "finish" vault tracks even if they co-wrote or co-arranged them. But if Boxill is really co-author, I can understand his perspective as an artist: it's, after all, his work too.

[Edited 3/14/18 22:30pm]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #27 posted 03/14/18 11:44pm

EnDoRpHn

Clearly that was Boxill’s strategy: to demonstrate through the affidavit that he had contributed equally to the creative work.

databank said:

If (and I say "if" as I cannot verify this) Ian Boxill indeed co-authored and co-arranged the songs he has a certain legitimacy when it comes to "finishing" them, in the sense that they're as much "his" as Prince's, even if Prince legally owned the masters from the fact that he paid for the sessions and that Ian was contractually tied to him as a session musician. In that sense, the "finishing" would be more legitimate than any posthumous remix.


.


Regardless, as a Prince fan, I'd rather hear the tracks as Prince left them, because it is quite uncertain that he'd have approved of those final mixes as they are, and I want his work to be left untouched. In a similar way, I wouldn't like the Revolution or any past bandmembers to "finish" vault tracks even if they co-wrote or co-arranged them. But if Boxill is really co-author, I can understand his perspective as an artist: it's, after all, his work too.

[Edited 3/14/18 22:30pm]

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Reply #28 posted 03/15/18 1:19am

databank

avatar

EnDoRpHn said:

Clearly that was Boxill’s strategy: to demonstrate through the affidavit that he had contributed equally to the creative work. databank said:

If (and I say "if" as I cannot verify this) Ian Boxill indeed co-authored and co-arranged the songs he has a certain legitimacy when it comes to "finishing" them, in the sense that they're as much "his" as Prince's, even if Prince legally owned the masters from the fact that he paid for the sessions and that Ian was contractually tied to him as a session musician. In that sense, the "finishing" would be more legitimate than any posthumous remix.

.

Regardless, as a Prince fan, I'd rather hear the tracks as Prince left them, because it is quite uncertain that he'd have approved of those final mixes as they are, and I want his work to be left untouched. In a similar way, I wouldn't like the Revolution or any past bandmembers to "finish" vault tracks even if they co-wrote or co-arranged them. But if Boxill is really co-author, I can understand his perspective as an artist: it's, after all, his work too.

[Edited 3/14/18 22:30pm]

What I'd like to see is the actual copyright notice and registration date: were the songs copyrighted during P's lifetime and, if so, were there copyrighted as a collaboration, or did Boxil copyright them as such after Prince passed?

Since Prince left ASCAP IDK where to look online for a complete list of his copyrighted songs, but the fact that Princevault says Prince is sole author may indicate they've checked, IDK.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #29 posted 03/15/18 1:52am

dodger

Tangerine17 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



I wonder how Mathieu heard the original tracks?

Maybe by his association with Lenny, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, and others?

Actually, it has nothing to do with any of my friends/collaborators that you listed although they were all friends with Prince. I actually got some CDs back in 06 that were early configurations of Lotusflow3r, Planet Earth and 3121 when I was working on Ultimate, When 2 R In Love and some other secret projects. Of course I’ve never copied them but I can attest to the fact that Boxil did overdubs on the original tracks but those are Prince’s tracks on Boxil’s version. He just added background vocals and some keyboard strings and things. Hope this helps. [Edited 3/14/18 22:14pm]

Thanks for the info. Out of curiousity I'm guessing Prince's tracks were finished and not demo like? And if they were finished were Bohill's overdubs/additions massively noticeable?

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