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Reply #330 posted 08/30/18 4:56pm

luvsexy4all

since this is a bust......what will the brain trusts do????

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Reply #331 posted 08/31/18 8:37am

RodeoSchro

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

since this is a bust......what will the brain trusts do????




Define "bust".

Look - if you are the estate, you've sold all the Greatest Hits packages you're going to sell. Now, if you want to maximize revenue, you have to convince consumers that they should buy Prince stuff that they've never heard before. And this isn't "new" stuff in the sense that it was recorded last month. No, this is stuff that at best goes back 2+ years and more likely goes back 30+ years. So it isn't "new" music in the sense that it's "current" music.

So how do you go about showing consumers that they should pay attention to "old but unheard" Prince music? I think the Anthology playlist did a great job with that.

It got a glowing article in Rolling Stone, which told readers that there were genius Prince tracks hiding in plain site.

It's probably safe to assume that 90% or more of the sales of the Anthology set were NOT to people like you and I - Prince fans who have it all and want more. No, these sales are probably to people who we WANT and NEED to buy Prince music in order to keep the estate afloat and the new music coming.

My hope is that the Anthology sales were enough to convince the estate that the release of vault material can be worth it. Remember this:

There is NO REQUIREMENT that the estate EVER release Prince's vault tracks.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #332 posted 08/31/18 8:50am

RodeoSchro

avatar

For grins, try this exercise:

Assume you have a chance to buy Prince's entire vault inventory. You get all the unreleased songs; the unfinished stuff; the rehearsals; the videos; the concert video and audios. All of them. You can do anything with them you want.

How much would you pay? Well, that would be determined by how much you think you could make. At the very least, you'd want to get your investment back. More likely, you'd like to make money, probably a LOT of money.

You look at the Anthology release and think, "What a bomb. Geez, did it flop". Well, if you think that, then you'd have to believe that releasing vault stuff is only going to do worse. There's been no evidence of demand for unreleased stuff. If there has, please point it out. That might change our thinking.

So - how much money do you think you could get out of the hardcore Prince fans out there? $1 million? $10 million? $50,000? Think hard about it. Here's how I look at it:

I assume there are about 100,000 hardcore Prince fans out there. Let's say I could get $50 from each and every one of them. That's total revenue of $5,000,000.

But I have to sell that stuff, and that costs money. For ease of calculation, let's assume my sales costs total 50% of revenue. So my sales costs are $2,500,000. That means my profit is $2,500,000 before taxes.

In America, the best case scenario I think is if I set this up as an LLC and get to pay the corporate rate of 21%. So my tax bill is $525,000 which leaves me a net cash profit of $1,975,000.

How much would you pay to end up with $1,975,000? Would you pay $1,000,000? That gives you an almost 100% return on your money, although I imagine it would take 3-5 years to make it all. That means your annual return is somewhere in the 20% - 33% range, which is good.

How do you think the estate would react if you offered them $1,000,000 for the entire vault contents?

How would YOU price this stuff?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #333 posted 08/31/18 9:57am

luvsexy4all

RodeoSchro said:

luvsexy4all said:

since this is a bust......what will the brain trusts do????




Define "bust".

Look - if you are the estate, you've sold all the Greatest Hits packages you're going to sell. Now, if you want to maximize revenue, you have to convince consumers that they should buy Prince stuff that they've never heard before. And this isn't "new" stuff in the sense that it was recorded last month. No, this is stuff that at best goes back 2+ years and more likely goes back 30+ years. So it isn't "new" music in the sense that it's "current" music.

So how do you go about showing consumers that they should pay attention to "old but unheard" Prince music? I think the Anthology playlist did a great job with that.

It got a glowing article in Rolling Stone, which told readers that there were genius Prince tracks hiding in plain site.

It's probably safe to assume that 90% or more of the sales of the Anthology set were NOT to people like you and I - Prince fans who have it all and want more. No, these sales are probably to people who we WANT and NEED to buy Prince music in order to keep the estate afloat and the new music coming.

My hope is that the Anthology sales were enough to convince the estate that the release of vault material can be worth it. Remember this:

There is NO REQUIREMENT that the estate EVER release Prince's vault tracks.

bust ..as in no ones downloading it?

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Reply #334 posted 08/31/18 10:12am

RodeoSchro

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

RodeoSchro said:




Define "bust".

Look - if you are the estate, you've sold all the Greatest Hits packages you're going to sell. Now, if you want to maximize revenue, you have to convince consumers that they should buy Prince stuff that they've never heard before. And this isn't "new" stuff in the sense that it was recorded last month. No, this is stuff that at best goes back 2+ years and more likely goes back 30+ years. So it isn't "new" music in the sense that it's "current" music.

So how do you go about showing consumers that they should pay attention to "old but unheard" Prince music? I think the Anthology playlist did a great job with that.

It got a glowing article in Rolling Stone, which told readers that there were genius Prince tracks hiding in plain site.

It's probably safe to assume that 90% or more of the sales of the Anthology set were NOT to people like you and I - Prince fans who have it all and want more. No, these sales are probably to people who we WANT and NEED to buy Prince music in order to keep the estate afloat and the new music coming.

My hope is that the Anthology sales were enough to convince the estate that the release of vault material can be worth it. Remember this:

There is NO REQUIREMENT that the estate EVER release Prince's vault tracks.

bust ..as in no ones downloading it?


http://www.itunescharts.n...1995-2010/


Prince - 'Anthology: 1995-2010'
American iTunes Chart Performance

"Anthology: 1995-2010":Chart Statistics

  • Release date: 17 Aug 2018
  • Chart debut: #22 (17 Aug 2018)
  • Highest Position: #22 (17 Aug 2018)
  • Most recent chart position: #55 (23 Aug 2018)
  • Days on US Albums Chart: 8

'Anthology: 1995-2010' has charted in the following countries:
United Kingdom, United States, France, Canada and Australia.

Detailed Chart Progress for "Anthology: 1995-2010" (Prince)

US Albums chart performance history for Anthology: 1995-2010

YearMonthDayPositionMovementNumber 1
2018 Aug 17 Fri 22 new Ariana Grande
Sweetener
17 Fri 22 new
18 Sat 25 down
19 Sun 35 down
20 Mon 43 down
21 Tue 57 down
22 Wed 51 up
23 Thu 55 down



The day it hit #22 there were 8 Aretha Franklin albums ahead of it. So absent the Queen of Soul's death, Anthology was a Top 15 download.

It hit #15 in France.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #335 posted 08/31/18 3:03pm

RODSERLING

I tunes charts are like rnb charts : there are subpar charts that are not représentative of what the Real, définitive chart is.
.
As of now, this anthology charted in only two countries : #114 in Belgium ( in fact in the German part of the Belgium, not even in the whole country! )
and #100 in Swiss ( in fact, in the German part of the Swiss, not in the whole country too !!).
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Reply #336 posted 08/31/18 5:04pm

IstenSzek

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

For grins, try this exercise:

Assume you have a chance to buy Prince's entire vault inventory. You get all the unreleased songs; the unfinished stuff; the rehearsals; the videos; the concert video and audios. All of them. You can do anything with them you want.

How much would you pay? Well, that would be determined by how much you think you could make. At the very least, you'd want to get your investment back. More likely, you'd like to make money, probably a LOT of money.

You look at the Anthology release and think, "What a bomb. Geez, did it flop". Well, if you think that, then you'd have to believe that releasing vault stuff is only going to do worse. There's been no evidence of demand for unreleased stuff. If there has, please point it out. That might change our thinking.

So - how much money do you think you could get out of the hardcore Prince fans out there? $1 million? $10 million? $50,000? Think hard about it. Here's how I look at it:

I assume there are about 100,000 hardcore Prince fans out there. Let's say I could get $50 from each and every one of them. That's total revenue of $5,000,000.

But I have to sell that stuff, and that costs money. For ease of calculation, let's assume my sales costs total 50% of revenue. So my sales costs are $2,500,000. That means my profit is $2,500,000 before taxes.

In America, the best case scenario I think is if I set this up as an LLC and get to pay the corporate rate of 21%. So my tax bill is $525,000 which leaves me a net cash profit of $1,975,000.

How much would you pay to end up with $1,975,000? Would you pay $1,000,000? That gives you an almost 100% return on your money, although I imagine it would take 3-5 years to make it all. That means your annual return is somewhere in the 20% - 33% range, which is good.

How do you think the estate would react if you offered them $1,000,000 for the entire vault contents?

How would YOU price this stuff?



the estate or whatever company starts to release a slew of decent albums or collections
will get a lot more money from me. a lot. i'd be happy to pay up to $50 a month for new
music to keep flowing. but there would have to be a lot of music each month, both studio
tracks, completed albums, alternate versions of projects, rehearsals, aftershows, concerts.

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #337 posted 08/31/18 5:16pm

IstenSzek

avatar

what made anyone think the anthology was going to light up the charts and be this big commercial
succes?

non fans are still not interested, or, if they are, they will discover prince at their own pace and not
come flocking to the lacklustre sequence in their millions right now.

it's going to be a slow but gradual process from now on, getting new people in. just like with, say,
the beatles, new generations will discover his music and love it for decades to come.

however, the money and the relative succes of any new release lies strictly with the established
fanbase. and this anthology offers that fanbase exactly ZERO new stuff they don't already have.

it's cool to have all the albums on the streaming services now and it would be interesting to see
how many streams they get, all together, now that they are all on most platforms.

personally, i've already noticed that i'm listening to 80% of his music on spotify, eventhough i've
got all his albums, in physical and digital. it's just easy, especially when you're not listening with
headphones and just doing chores or working and the quality is not too important.

but if a new prince release is going to make a bit of a splash, it needs to be geared toward us, and
be comprised of studio songs we haven't yet heard. or really perfectly curated live concerts and or
aftershows. (but since we have most of those too, in varying qualities, new/old studio tracks that
we don't yet have would be best).

prince: piano and more 31 -not something for just a casual listener, and if they do listen it won't
set their world on fire, now will it? hardcore fans: already had it. will purchase, perhaps, for the
sound upgrade. personally, i'm not too excited to buy it. will stream it for a while first. it will be
the first ever prince release i'm not buying the very first day it will be available to me.

anthology - not something for long time fans, they have all of this music (how hard would it've
been for them to throw 1 new song in?) and not really something for casual listeners either. for
me personally, if let's say springsteen or tori amos or beck or whomever, all of a sudden had a
dozen albums on spotify that i didn't know yet, i would not be tempted to listen to an anthology
first to discover what tracks i like from that and then go to the corresponding albums.

but that's how young people do it now, perhaps? lol i'm old. i'd see the anthology pop up in the
'new music' section and be 'wait? what? all those albums are now on here?' and just go direct to
the albums and discover those one by one. i'm not interested in someone elses playlist (and a bad
one at that).

so who exactly is supposed to stream these releases in the millions? they are geared toward no
one.



and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #338 posted 09/01/18 1:42am

KAB

avatar

IstenSzek said:

what made anyone think the anthology was going to light up the charts and be this big commercial
succes?

non fans are still not interested, or, if they are, they will discover prince at their own pace and not
come flocking to the lacklustre sequence in their millions right now.

it's going to be a slow but gradual process from now on, getting new people in. just like with, say,
the beatles, new generations will discover his music and love it for decades to come.

however, the money and the relative succes of any new release lies strictly with the established
fanbase. and this anthology offers that fanbase exactly ZERO new stuff they don't already have.

it's cool to have all the albums on the streaming services now and it would be interesting to see
how many streams they get, all together, now that they are all on most platforms.

personally, i've already noticed that i'm listening to 80% of his music on spotify, eventhough i've
got all his albums, in physical and digital. it's just easy, especially when you're not listening with
headphones and just doing chores or working and the quality is not too important.

but if a new prince release is going to make a bit of a splash, it needs to be geared toward us, and
be comprised of studio songs we haven't yet heard. or really perfectly curated live concerts and or
aftershows. (but since we have most of those too, in varying qualities, new/old studio tracks that
we don't yet have would be best).

prince: piano and more 31 -not something for just a casual listener, and if they do listen it won't
set their world on fire, now will it? hardcore fans: already had it. will purchase, perhaps, for the
sound upgrade. personally, i'm not too excited to buy it. will stream it for a while first. it will be
the first ever prince release i'm not buying the very first day it will be available to me.

anthology - not something for long time fans, they have all of this music (how hard would it've
been for them to throw 1 new song in?) and not really something for casual listeners either. for
me personally, if let's say springsteen or tori amos or beck or whomever, all of a sudden had a
dozen albums on spotify that i didn't know yet, i would not be tempted to listen to an anthology
first to discover what tracks i like from that and then go to the corresponding albums.

but that's how young people do it now, perhaps? lol i'm old. i'd see the anthology pop up in the
'new music' section and be 'wait? what? all those albums are now on here?' and just go direct to
the albums and discover those one by one. i'm not interested in someone elses playlist (and a bad
one at that).

so who exactly is supposed to stream these releases in the millions? they are geared toward no
one.



Agreed!

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Reply #339 posted 09/02/18 4:43am

RODSERLING

KAB said:



IstenSzek said:


what made anyone think the anthology was going to light up the charts and be this big commercial
succes?

non fans are still not interested, or, if they are, they will discover prince at their own pace and not
come flocking to the lacklustre sequence in their millions right now.

it's going to be a slow but gradual process from now on, getting new people in. just like with, say,
the beatles, new generations will discover his music and love it for decades to come.

however, the money and the relative succes of any new release lies strictly with the established
fanbase. and this anthology offers that fanbase exactly ZERO new stuff they don't already have.

it's cool to have all the albums on the streaming services now and it would be interesting to see
how many streams they get, all together, now that they are all on most platforms.

personally, i've already noticed that i'm listening to 80% of his music on spotify, eventhough i've
got all his albums, in physical and digital. it's just easy, especially when you're not listening with
headphones and just doing chores or working and the quality is not too important.

but if a new prince release is going to make a bit of a splash, it needs to be geared toward us, and
be comprised of studio songs we haven't yet heard. or really perfectly curated live concerts and or
aftershows. (but since we have most of those too, in varying qualities, new/old studio tracks that
we don't yet have would be best).

prince: piano and more 31 -not something for just a casual listener, and if they do listen it won't
set their world on fire, now will it? hardcore fans: already had it. will purchase, perhaps, for the
sound upgrade. personally, i'm not too excited to buy it. will stream it for a while first. it will be
the first ever prince release i'm not buying the very first day it will be available to me.

anthology - not something for long time fans, they have all of this music (how hard would it've
been for them to throw 1 new song in?) and not really something for casual listeners either. for
me personally, if let's say springsteen or tori amos or beck or whomever, all of a sudden had a
dozen albums on spotify that i didn't know yet, i would not be tempted to listen to an anthology
first to discover what tracks i like from that and then go to the corresponding albums.

but that's how young people do it now, perhaps? lol i'm old. i'd see the anthology pop up in the
'new music' section and be 'wait? what? all those albums are now on here?' and just go direct to
the albums and discover those one by one. i'm not interested in someone elses playlist (and a bad
one at that).

so who exactly is supposed to stream these releases in the millions? they are geared toward no
one.








Agreed!



The point is that this release could have been streamed by millions if it was simply à greatest Hits, with TMBGITW. It would have also been released physically, with the music vidéos from this era.
.
The focus on the 1995/2010 catalogue would have been then, Way better, attracting more people.
.
This anthology shows just how much the estate s unability to perpétuité Prince s legacy to the fans and also to à large audience.
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Reply #340 posted 09/03/18 2:49am

KAB

avatar

RODSERLING said:

KAB said:

Agreed!

The point is that this release could have been streamed by millions if it was simply à greatest Hits, with TMBGITW. It would have also been released physically, with the music vidéos from this era. . The focus on the 1995/2010 catalogue would have been then, Way better, attracting more people. . This anthology shows just how much the estate s unability to perpétuité Prince s legacy to the fans and also to à large audience.

Agreed once more. 2010-2016 too!

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Reply #341 posted 09/03/18 10:42pm

wasitgood4u

avatar

IstenSzek said:

what made anyone think the anthology was going to light up the charts and be this big commercial
succes?

non fans are still not interested, or, if they are, they will discover prince at their own pace and not
come flocking to the lacklustre sequence in their millions right now.

it's going to be a slow but gradual process from now on, getting new people in. just like with, say,
the beatles, new generations will discover his music and love it for decades to come.

however, the money and the relative succes of any new release lies strictly with the established
fanbase. and this anthology offers that fanbase exactly ZERO new stuff they don't already have.

it's cool to have all the albums on the streaming services now and it would be interesting to see
how many streams they get, all together, now that they are all on most platforms.

personally, i've already noticed that i'm listening to 80% of his music on spotify, eventhough i've
got all his albums, in physical and digital. it's just easy, especially when you're not listening with
headphones and just doing chores or working and the quality is not too important.

but if a new prince release is going to make a bit of a splash, it needs to be geared toward us, and
be comprised of studio songs we haven't yet heard. or really perfectly curated live concerts and or
aftershows. (but since we have most of those too, in varying qualities, new/old studio tracks that
we don't yet have would be best).

prince: piano and more 31 -not something for just a casual listener, and if they do listen it won't
set their world on fire, now will it? hardcore fans: already had it. will purchase, perhaps, for the
sound upgrade. personally, i'm not too excited to buy it. will stream it for a while first. it will be
the first ever prince release i'm not buying the very first day it will be available to me.

anthology - not something for long time fans, they have all of this music (how hard would it've
been for them to throw 1 new song in?) and not really something for casual listeners either. for
me personally, if let's say springsteen or tori amos or beck or whomever, all of a sudden had a
dozen albums on spotify that i didn't know yet, i would not be tempted to listen to an anthology
first to discover what tracks i like from that and then go to the corresponding albums.

but that's how young people do it now, perhaps? lol i'm old. i'd see the anthology pop up in the
'new music' section and be 'wait? what? all those albums are now on here?' and just go direct to
the albums and discover those one by one. i'm not interested in someone elses playlist (and a bad
one at that).

so who exactly is supposed to stream these releases in the millions? they are geared toward no
one.





But maybe your last point is the main one - this anthology pops up in people’s new releases or recommended and makes them aware that the newer albums are steaming...
Despite being in a bunch of Prince FB groups, I missed the news of this and the Anthology popping up in New Releases on Apple Music was the first I heard.
Despite having all these albums (except Indigo Nights), I listened to the Anthology for 2 reasons:
1. Just to hear what they selected and how it sounded together.
2. To remind me what’s out there as I go and stream some of the albums I haven’t listened to in a while (for those interested: LF and Indigo Nights, so far).
"We've never been able to pull off a funk number"

"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons"
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Reply #342 posted 09/10/18 12:47pm

luvsexy4all

isnt it financially worthwhile for them to release the anthology on CD???

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Reply #343 posted 09/11/18 2:05am

jaawwnn

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

isnt it financially worthwhile for them to release the anthology on CD???

Maybe they're waiting on TMBGITW to be made available. And a better tracklist.

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Reply #344 posted 09/11/18 7:14am

OperatingTheta
n

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

isnt it financially worthwhile for them to release the anthology on CD???



I think it works better as a playlist. Much more thought and consideration would be required for a physical edition.
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Reply #345 posted 09/16/18 4:46am

Moonbeam

avatar

I've had fun listening to Anthology. I'd buy a copy if it was physically released.

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
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Reply #346 posted 09/20/18 7:20am

databank

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

luvsexy4all said:

bust ..as in no ones downloading it?


http://www.itunescharts.n...1995-2010/


Prince - 'Anthology: 1995-2010'
American iTunes Chart Performance

"Anthology: 1995-2010":Chart Statistics

  • Release date: 17 Aug 2018
  • Chart debut: #22 (17 Aug 2018)
  • Highest Position: #22 (17 Aug 2018)
  • Most recent chart position: #55 (23 Aug 2018)
  • Days on US Albums Chart: 8

'Anthology: 1995-2010' has charted in the following countries:
United Kingdom, United States, France, Canada and Australia.

Detailed Chart Progress for "Anthology: 1995-2010" (Prince)

US Albums chart performance history for Anthology: 1995-2010

YearMonthDayPositionMovementNumber 1
2018 Aug 17 Fri 22 new Ariana Grande
Sweetener
17 Fri 22 new
18 Sat 25 down
19 Sun 35 down
20 Mon 43 down
21 Tue 57 down
22 Wed 51 up
23 Thu 55 down



The day it hit #22 there were 8 Aretha Franklin albums ahead of it. So absent the Queen of Soul's death, Anthology was a Top 15 download.

It hit #15 in France.

It's pretty remarkable for a compilation of later, mostly obscure releases by a dead artist whose career peak ended 25 years ago. I fail to see why some orgers, against all evidence, keep insisting on saying Prince records don't, or won't sell (or stream, since streaming is sort of the new measure of success).

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #347 posted 09/20/18 9:49am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

MIRvmn said:


Yes WB obviously wasn't satisfied with PR Deluxe and only released it cuz it was part of the 2014 deal.

.

Do we know that PR Deluxe was part of the '14 deal? I don't think so. As far as I'm aware only the remaster of the original album was part of the deal, that's what Prince gave them, without any bonus material. All the added stuff was just Warner's decision, with no involvement from the estate (apart from getting their approval) and with no access to Paisley's vault.

Someone recently claimed (I can't remember who, I just read this in an interview some days ago) that certain songs on PR Deluxe (not all) had already been selected by Prince for the rerelease. However we do know it was part of the 2014 deal (at least verbally, IDK whether papers were signed) because it was announced in the same press release that said Prince had gotten his masters back at the time.

.

On the "do we know" note, I'm not aware of us knowing that WB lost money on PR Deluxe as claimed by some above. This is most likely just another fantasy from those who preach the "Prince-doesn't-sell" religion, a personal belief posted as a statement by an orger, then repeated by others until rumor has been repeated enough times to become fact. Beware of those approximations. For some reasons that I really can't understand, certain people here have a political agenda that consists in trying to convince everyone that each Prince release is a flop and that there is no market for any further release. I'm puzzled by that because I'm not sure if they really believe it of if they have something to gain from spreading those lies, and they had already begun doing it when Prince was alive. You can show them a charts sheet saying a Prince album was #1, and they'll still find excuses to claim it was a total flop, and you can show them that Apollonia's long forgotten 1988 album (that probably sold 20 copies back then) just got a deluxe 2 CD rerelease with bonus tracks and they'll still maintain that there's no market for a 1999 reissue rolleyes

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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