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Reply #150 posted 09/29/18 6:15pm

fen

avatar

steakfinger said:

FUNKNROLL said:

TweetyV6 said: And it was his choice. He was entitled to be a flawed human being seeking answers and spiritual guidance over a lifetime full of changes and contradictions.

Change is the only constant. I mean that in the scientific, Second Law of Thermodynamics way, not the bumper sticker philosophy way.

Change would occur in the universe whether or not life existed to percieve it. Fearing change is the way of the coward, not the seeker.

There are no condradictions in life. Contradictions happen only when humans chose to live a fantasy and set up ideals that are unattainable. Contradiction doesn't exist unless life forms misunderstnd what they're experiencing. Spirituality is not necessary to experience wonder. Spirituality is the way people who lack curiousity describe the universe that they're too lazy to get out of their own heads and investigate. "I don't know what I'm looking at, but it's overwhelming. Therefore, MAGIC."

Answers and guidance don't come from being intellectually lazy. Do the actual work.

[Edited 9/27/18 8:49am]

I'm not sure about that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

That or the possibility of endless repetition, which is even worse.

(Just to cheer everyone up).

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Reply #151 posted 09/29/18 6:20pm

PeteSilas

remember cool hand luke? the fictional character i brought up? He was what was called an "existential hero" by the author of the screenplay. What he meant was, the character would say things that he had no intention of abiding by, he'd give up, admit he was beat, only to win reprieve, he'd say he wanted to do crazy feats so that he could impress everyone, but really, it wore on him after awhile and he felt trapped. Yet and still, in the end, he was never broken, killed, but not broken. and he'd probably say he wasn't a hero too, that wasn't the point, he was the archetypal hero. Prince fits a lot of that type of story. He had to know he was special, he had to know he was trapped in that role too, it's too bad he couldn't just walk away. even though most of his fans did nothing but complained, there was still enough demand to keep money running freely. I haven't heard about any of the money issues that Elvis, MJ and others had when they died.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm not dissapointed, but i could understand why someone else would be. I've been let down by so many heroes that the slowly learned lesson was that they are just people inspite of the magic they work. I still don't think we know everything or even close to it. I think Prince knew he was a goner and I don't really think he particularly worried about it, we did because we loved him but I don't think he'd really change it if he had the chance. I'm still intrigued by the illness that all the folks close to him insinuate but never name. I still don't think we know nearly as much as we think we do. we don't have the info.

I agree with some of what you are saying here, but remember, Prince never asked or expected to be anyone's hero. He just wanted to play his music, and wanted folks to enjoy "the ride". Later on, as he matured and delved deeper into his religious beliefs, he did speak out against violent and raunchy lyrics, and stated that he had grown as a person with regard to his music. While the majority of his music was based in love and sex, he did also use it to express his political and religious views - and that's okay. Most musicians do the same.

*

There may have been an illness other than just the pain med addiction for extreme muscle and joint pain. We may never know for sure. I know many people discount the statements that Tyka has made, but the interview that she did where she stated that she knew 2 years prior to his death sticks with me. It also aligns with the stories of him reaching out to many past associates with whom he had not seen or spoken to in a long time. I know they had their ups and downs, and were not always close, but family is family, and that is where you turn when the end may be near. Just my thoughts...

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #152 posted 09/29/18 7:12pm

purplefam99

violetcrush said:



purplefam99 said:




violetcrush said:




The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.


*


So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.




Violet to your comment^^^ no one (hopefully) accuses someone of needing therapy for emotional reactions and statements about


Trump. Most of the way the OP was treated was poor and meaness masquarading as bluntness.


it is nice to see compassion trying to take hold a bit.




I hear what you're saying, and I agree that some comments were a bit harsh. However, I think my statements above apply to Trump too. I can't stand him as a person, and especially as our President, however, I do not know him personally (nor would I want to), so his past pig behavior toward women, and his many absurd and immature statements, while they do piss me off, I do not feel emotionally hurt or betrayed by him.


*


That being said, I don't think it's fair to compare Trump to Prince. Trump is the elected President of the USA, and as such, he is supposed to be held to a high moral standard, and conduct himself in a way that is honest and respectful toward all citizens. He is representing my country. Prince was just a musician. He was not obligated to uphold any type of moral standard for anyone, nor did he owe us any type of consistent message with regard to his personal beliefs or lifestyle. He, like many of us, changed his ideals, behavoirs, and beliefs throughout his lifetime, and he was entitled to do that. He did not owe us anything in that regard.


*


My comments were really just meant to say that it seems there may be a deeper personal issue in play if one is feeling hurt or angry about the lifestyle of a musician he or she did not know personally.







Fair enough and I was just saying that people have emotional reactions
To people they don’t know ( trump was my example not comparison to prince) and it is not the norm to tell them they need help or therapy
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Reply #153 posted 09/29/18 7:28pm

Krystalkisses

avatar

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:



purplefam99 said:




violetcrush said:




The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.


*


So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.




Violet to your comment^^^ no one (hopefully) accuses someone of needing therapy for emotional reactions and statements about


Trump. Most of the way the OP was treated was poor and meaness masquarading as bluntness.


it is nice to see compassion trying to take hold a bit.




I hear what you're saying, and I agree that some comments were a bit harsh. However, I think my statements above apply to Trump too. I can't stand him as a person, and especially as our President, however, I do not know him personally (nor would I want to), so his past pig behavior toward women, and his many absurd and immature statements, while they do piss me off, I do not feel emotionally hurt or betrayed by him.


*


That being said, I don't think it's fair to compare Trump to Prince. Trump is the elected President of the USA, and as such, he is supposed to be held to a high moral standard, and conduct himself in a way that is honest and respectful toward all citizens. He is representing my country. Prince was just a musician. He was not obligated to uphold any type of moral standard for anyone, nor did he owe us any type of consistent message with regard to his personal beliefs or lifestyle. He, like many of us, changed his ideals, behavoirs, and beliefs throughout his lifetime, and he was entitled to do that. He did not owe us anything in that regard.


*


My comments were really just meant to say that it seems there may be a deeper personal issue in play if one is feeling hurt or angry about the lifestyle of a musician he or she did not know personally.







Fair enough and I was just saying that people have emotional reactions
To people they don’t know ( trump was my example not comparison to prince) and it is not the norm to tell them they need help or therapy


I understood what you meant, and that was a good example btw.
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Reply #154 posted 09/29/18 7:39pm

purplefam99

PeteSilas said:

i'm not dissapointed, but i could understand why someone else would be. I've been let down by so many heroes that the slowly learned lesson was that they are just people inspite of the magic they work. I still don't think we know everything or even close to it. I think Prince knew he was a goner and I don't really think he particularly worried about it, we did because we loved him but I don't think he'd really change it if he had the chance. I'm still intrigued by the illness that all the folks close to him insinuate but never name. I still don't think we know nearly as much as we think we do. we don't have the info.



Pete^^^^ what you said is beautiful and a very emotional answer
And perhaps why you can understand why another may feel hurt. Because
To love is to hurt. And to add he was someone you didn’t even know.
[Edited 9/29/18 19:40pm]
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Reply #155 posted 09/29/18 9:18pm

peggyon

purplefam99 said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm not dissapointed, but i could understand why someone else would be. I've been let down by so many heroes that the slowly learned lesson was that they are just people inspite of the magic they work. I still don't think we know everything or even close to it. I think Prince knew he was a goner and I don't really think he particularly worried about it, we did because we loved him but I don't think he'd really change it if he had the chance. I'm still intrigued by the illness that all the folks close to him insinuate but never name. I still don't think we know nearly as much as we think we do. we don't have the info.

Pete^^^^ what you said is beautiful and a very emotional answer And perhaps why you can understand why another may feel hurt. Because To love is to hurt. And to add he was someone you didn’t even know. [Edited 9/29/18 19:40pm]

Pete-i love your posts...they are such a treat as they offer deep insight into the man. You have opinions but you very open to others, lack a dogmatic approach and you are really funny.

Great facility with language,( both high and low.) Your verbal skill/riffing ability reminds me of Prince's musical versatility. Kinda wish you would publish something about our guy.

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Reply #156 posted 09/29/18 9:45pm

Purpleone4Eva

Well, I see this place is as crazy as ever. wacky

bandaid

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Reply #157 posted 09/29/18 11:15pm

benni

I do not feel hurt or betrayed by Prince's choices. I was angry with him for awhile because his passing was senseless. All I feel now is sadness that he is not still here, making music, and being Prince.

Prince didn't owe his fans anything. As a rock/pop/funk star, he didn't even owe us music. If he decided to quit playing, he could have and there would have been nothing anyone could have done, least of all fans. He didn't owe us an explanation about his life, about his choices. Oh, I'm sure that some of us wanted to feel like we knew him, because of his music, his interviews, his spiritual path, his ideas, or whatever/however we felt connected to him; but in reality, unless we walked in his circles and spoke intimately with him, we didn't know him. We know who he presented himself to be to us, an idea of who Prince was, but not the reality of who he was.

I saw him one way, another fan saw him another, and still yet a third saw him as someone else. We've created an image of Prince based upon our own life experiences, ideas, beliefs, etc. that help to shape how we view the world and each other.

As for him being a JW, I'm sure that the JWs teach that we are not perfect human beings. With the fall of man, how can we be? But JWs strive to meet an unrealistic goal of becoming perfect here on earth, and many fall short. If that was not true, then the JWs would not have disciplinary guidelines set up, even to the point of ex-communicating members who fall way too short of that goal. So, they know people fall short, people make mistakes, people are not perfect and cannot live a perfect life; and to address that, to help them get back on the "right" path, to strive towards that goal, they discipline those that fall short. So to state they are held to a higher standard is a fallacy. They want to hold their members to a higher standard, but as with all people, they make mistakes and they learn, and hopefully grow from those mistakes.

I miss his presence here on earth. I miss getting excited for a new album, a new tweet, a new interview, wondering, when he would sometimes disappear, when he will reappear. I miss listening to a new album that is fresh off the presses and out of the studio, and reading complaints here of "Well, that really sucked. What was he thinking?" to the praises of "Prince put out a new MASTERPIECE."

I was not close to Prince. He helped to shape me in the sense that his music was a part of my life and a part of the memories that I hold, and that music set the scene and the music of that event, of that memory. But I didn't know him to be betrayed by him. I didn't know him to be hurt by him. I loved the little purple dude - and cared for him - or the idea that I held of him, but in order to be hurt and betrayed, I would have to have a personal friendship, a personal relationship with him, and I had neither.

Prince was, and is, a musical icon who gave the world the gift of his music (or the travesty of it, depending on who you ask and when you ask them). An ex of mine once said that "You either love Prince, or you hate him. There is no inbetween." Looking back over the years of Prince's music, I disagree. I love a lot of his music, but I hated "Purple and Gold". (Still don't know what he was thinking when he did that one.) But as for the man, I loved the idea I held of him. And I guess the only way I could equate any type of betrayal or hurt to the love of a musical icon, is if I held an unrealistic view of him and the relationship between fan and star.


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Reply #158 posted 09/29/18 11:38pm

PeteSilas

peggyon said:

purplefam99 said:

PeteSilas said: Pete^^^^ what you said is beautiful and a very emotional answer And perhaps why you can understand why another may feel hurt. Because To love is to hurt. And to add he was someone you didn’t even know. [Edited 9/29/18 19:40pm]

Pete-i love your posts...they are such a treat as they offer deep insight into the man. You have opinions but you very open to others, lack a dogmatic approach and you are really funny.

Great facility with language,( both high and low.) Your verbal skill/riffing ability reminds me of Prince's musical versatility. Kinda wish you would publish something about our guy.

thanks peggy, i'd have to cool my heels though if i did that, as the poster below says, i get a little nuts, just a little nuts, i need an editor to reel me in. I once told my brother right before prince died that i wanted to build a tower over paisley park and said "hell, prince doesn't own the air" he talked me out of it, I told him that i wasn't as crazy as the guy who killed lennon, he shot john then sat down and read catcher in the rhye, then my bro joked about trying to build the tower and getting caught with a copy of Rhye. I was joking but i'm nutty enough to where my brother stopped what he was doing and looked at me because he wasn't sure.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #159 posted 09/29/18 11:39pm

udo

avatar

I see it all as just another Prince stupidty.

Be it the 1993 '100 million' CONtract, his web$ite$, his way of managing CONcerts, his later one-off record deals, the choice of later B-sides, his late payment of bills or his presumed drug habit, his non-existing will, etc.

It is all the same.

.

Think about that.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
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Reply #160 posted 09/29/18 11:47pm

PeteSilas

udo said:

I see it all as just another Prince stupidty.

Be it the 1993 '100 million' CONtract, his web$ite$, his way of managing CONcerts, his later one-off record deals, the choice of later B-sides, his late payment of bills or his presumed drug habit, his non-existing will, etc.

It is all the same.

.

Think about that.

I HAVE thought about that, sometimes we see him as omnipotent but then there are signs of slippage, the dude said and did stupid stuff, not just stupid stuff in some people's eyes (like the JW's or adding rap into his music) but stupid stuff in nearly anyone's eyes like putting slave on his face, going on oprah when his kid died, the contract, etc.., etc..,

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #161 posted 09/30/18 5:59am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Purpleone4Eva said:

Well, I see this place is as crazy as ever. wacky

bandaid

why? because of the OP or all the people who disagreed?

Think this is not on other social media?

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #162 posted 09/30/18 7:40am

violetcrush

PeteSilas said:

peggyon said:

Pete-i love your posts...they are such a treat as they offer deep insight into the man. You have opinions but you very open to others, lack a dogmatic approach and you are really funny.

Great facility with language,( both high and low.) Your verbal skill/riffing ability reminds me of Prince's musical versatility. Kinda wish you would publish something about our guy.

thanks peggy, i'd have to cool my heels though if i did that, as the poster below says, i get a little nuts, just a little nuts, i need an editor to reel me in. I once told my brother right before prince died that i wanted to build a tower over paisley park and said "hell, prince doesn't own the air" he talked me out of it, I told him that i wasn't as crazy as the guy who killed lennon, he shot john then sat down and read catcher in the rhye, then my bro joked about trying to build the tower and getting caught with a copy of Rhye. I was joking but i'm nutty enough to where my brother stopped what he was doing and looked at me because he wasn't sure.

I enjoy your postst too, Pete. They are usually boldly honest and forthright. I guess I just have a different take on the "hurt feelings" as it relates to Prince, because I always figured he was not the "magical, perfect musician" character that he worked very hard to portray through the years, and my thoughts were confirmed once I began reading the various Biographies published about "the real man behind the music" His views, styles, and behaviors changed often, so I always took his words with a "grain of salt", as they say. The professional and personal conflicts/changes that he had throughout the years made it evident to me that he was not that calm, cool, and perfect dude - the image that he worked hard to maintain for the public. and his fans.

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Reply #163 posted 09/30/18 12:52pm

purplefam99

benni said:

I do not feel hurt or betrayed by Prince's choices. I was angry with him for awhile because his passing was senseless. All I feel now is sadness that he is not still here, making music, and being Prince.

Prince didn't owe his fans anything. As a rock/pop/funk star, he didn't even owe us music. If he decided to quit playing, he could have and there would have been nothing anyone could have done, least of all fans. He didn't owe us an explanation about his life, about his choices. Oh, I'm sure that some of us wanted to feel like we knew him, because of his music, his interviews, his spiritual path, his ideas, or whatever/however we felt connected to him; but in reality, unless we walked in his circles and spoke intimately with him, we didn't know him. We know who he presented himself to be to us, an idea of who Prince was, but not the reality of who he was.

I saw him one way, another fan saw him another, and still yet a third saw him as someone else. We've created an image of Prince based upon our own life experiences, ideas, beliefs, etc. that help to shape how we view the world and each other.

As for him being a JW, I'm sure that the JWs teach that we are not perfect human beings. With the fall of man, how can we be? But JWs strive to meet an unrealistic goal of becoming perfect here on earth, and many fall short. If that was not true, then the JWs would not have disciplinary guidelines set up, even to the point of ex-communicating members who fall way too short of that goal. So, they know people fall short, people make mistakes, people are not perfect and cannot live a perfect life; and to address that, to help them get back on the "right" path, to strive towards that goal, they discipline those that fall short. So to state they are held to a higher standard is a fallacy. They want to hold their members to a higher standard, but as with all people, they make mistakes and they learn, and hopefully grow from those mistakes.

I miss his presence here on earth. I miss getting excited for a new album, a new tweet, a new interview, wondering, when he would sometimes disappear, when he will reappear. I miss listening to a new album that is fresh off the presses and out of the studio, and reading complaints here of "Well, that really sucked. What was he thinking?" to the praises of "Prince put out a new MASTERPIECE."

I was not close to Prince. He helped to shape me in the sense that his music was a part of my life and a part of the memories that I hold, and that music set the scene and the music of that event, of that memory. But I didn't know him to be betrayed by him. I didn't know him to be hurt by him. I loved the little purple dude - and cared for him - or the idea that I held of him, but in order to be hurt and betrayed, I would have to have a personal friendship, a personal relationship with him, and I had neither.

Prince was, and is, a musical icon who gave the world the gift of his music (or the travesty of it, depending on who you ask and when you ask them). An ex of mine once said that "You either love Prince, or you hate him. There is no inbetween." Looking back over the years of Prince's music, I disagree. I love a lot of his music, but I hated "Purple and Gold". (Still don't know what he was thinking when he did that one.) But as for the man, I loved the idea I held of him. And I guess the only way I could equate any type of betrayal or hurt to the love of a musical icon, is if I held an unrealistic view of him and the relationship between fan and star.




Nice post!! Thx for sharing.
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Reply #164 posted 09/30/18 3:15pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

purplefam99 said:

benni said:

I do not feel hurt or betrayed by Prince's choices. I was angry with him for awhile because his passing was senseless. All I feel now is sadness that he is not still here, making music, and being Prince.

Prince didn't owe his fans anything. As a rock/pop/funk star, he didn't even owe us music. If he decided to quit playing, he could have and there would have been nothing anyone could have done, least of all fans. He didn't owe us an explanation about his life, about his choices. Oh, I'm sure that some of us wanted to feel like we knew him, because of his music, his interviews, his spiritual path, his ideas, or whatever/however we felt connected to him; but in reality, unless we walked in his circles and spoke intimately with him, we didn't know him. We know who he presented himself to be to us, an idea of who Prince was, but not the reality of who he was.

I saw him one way, another fan saw him another, and still yet a third saw him as someone else. We've created an image of Prince based upon our own life experiences, ideas, beliefs, etc. that help to shape how we view the world and each other.

As for him being a JW, I'm sure that the JWs teach that we are not perfect human beings. With the fall of man, how can we be? But JWs strive to meet an unrealistic goal of becoming perfect here on earth, and many fall short. If that was not true, then the JWs would not have disciplinary guidelines set up, even to the point of ex-communicating members who fall way too short of that goal. So, they know people fall short, people make mistakes, people are not perfect and cannot live a perfect life; and to address that, to help them get back on the "right" path, to strive towards that goal, they discipline those that fall short. So to state they are held to a higher standard is a fallacy. They want to hold their members to a higher standard, but as with all people, they make mistakes and they learn, and hopefully grow from those mistakes.

I miss his presence here on earth. I miss getting excited for a new album, a new tweet, a new interview, wondering, when he would sometimes disappear, when he will reappear. I miss listening to a new album that is fresh off the presses and out of the studio, and reading complaints here of "Well, that really sucked. What was he thinking?" to the praises of "Prince put out a new MASTERPIECE."

I was not close to Prince. He helped to shape me in the sense that his music was a part of my life and a part of the memories that I hold, and that music set the scene and the music of that event, of that memory. But I didn't know him to be betrayed by him. I didn't know him to be hurt by him. I loved the little purple dude - and cared for him - or the idea that I held of him, but in order to be hurt and betrayed, I would have to have a personal friendship, a personal relationship with him, and I had neither.

Prince was, and is, a musical icon who gave the world the gift of his music (or the travesty of it, depending on who you ask and when you ask them). An ex of mine once said that "You either love Prince, or you hate him. There is no inbetween." Looking back over the years of Prince's music, I disagree. I love a lot of his music, but I hated "Purple and Gold". (Still don't know what he was thinking when he did that one.) But as for the man, I loved the idea I held of him. And I guess the only way I could equate any type of betrayal or hurt to the love of a musical icon, is if I held an unrealistic view of him and the relationship between fan and star.


Nice post!! Thx for sharing.

yeahthat

"If you're living, you've got nothing left to prove..."
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Reply #165 posted 09/30/18 4:20pm

bboy87

avatar

rdhull said:

It amazing that someone who's basically shitting on a dead man is being considered for some bs empathy as if theyre even really 'affected'

Dude spent nearly 40 years of his life giving us most of his life and the small bit he felt was HIS, we feel we're also owed that?


neutral

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #166 posted 09/30/18 6:11pm

Seahorsie

PeteSilas said:

udo said:

I see it all as just another Prince stupidty.

Be it the 1993 '100 million' CONtract, his web$ite$, his way of managing CONcerts, his later one-off record deals, the choice of later B-sides, his late payment of bills or his presumed drug habit, his non-existing will, etc.

It is all the same.

.

Think about that.

I HAVE thought about that, sometimes we see him as omnipotent but then there are signs of slippage, the dude said and did stupid stuff, not just stupid stuff in some people's eyes (like the JW's or adding rap into his music) but stupid stuff in nearly anyone's eyes like putting slave on his face, going on oprah when his kid died, the contract, etc.., etc..,

We all have greatness in us, and we all have areas (and times) of complete stupidity. You want to see how Prince thought of himself? It's all there, unadulterated in the poems of his music.

Now how did the line go..

"I'm not saying I'm better, no better than you..."

Personally, I like him better just the way he was; crazy, inspired, dripping with music in his soul, eccentric, trying to act mysterious but sometimes coming off goofy, sensual, stylish, funkadelic swirled up in rock, proud, independent, and willing to put in the work. I don't need him to be something close to perfection.....I like all the chips in the gem.

Good morning children...take a look out your window.
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Reply #167 posted 09/30/18 9:09pm

SkipperLove

Hell, maybe the man was much more naive and impressionable than people realize. I think he tried so hard to be independent but I still suspect folks were bending his ear for their own purposes. In Michael Bland's interview, he stated that the first time Prince got a Watchtower from Mr. Graham, Prince laughed at it and made fun of it. His initial instinct was not to embrace it. But over time, he gained a mentor/father figure who he eventually bought a house for and excised his wife. I doubt he wasn't being influenced. Maybe he was like a ship tossed around in a storm that that will dock at any port that provides support and structure thinking that he made an independent choice to pick that dock but really the storm drifted him there.

Seahorsie said:

PeteSilas said:

I HAVE thought about that, sometimes we see him as omnipotent but then there are signs of slippage, the dude said and did stupid stuff, not just stupid stuff in some people's eyes (like the JW's or adding rap into his music) but stupid stuff in nearly anyone's eyes like putting slave on his face, going on oprah when his kid died, the contract, etc.., etc..,

We all have greatness in us, and we all have areas (and times) of complete stupidity. You want to see how Prince thought of himself? It's all there, unadulterated in the poems of his music.

Now how did the line go..

"I'm not saying I'm better, no better than you..."

Personally, I like him better just the way he was; crazy, inspired, dripping with music in his soul, eccentric, trying to act mysterious but sometimes coming off goofy, sensual, stylish, funkadelic swirled up in rock, proud, independent, and willing to put in the work. I don't need him to be something close to perfection.....I like all the chips in the gem.

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Reply #168 posted 10/01/18 7:39am

purplefam99

SkipperLove said:

Hell, maybe the man was much more naive and impressionable than people realize. I think he tried so hard to be independent but I still suspect folks were bending his ear for their own purposes. In Michael Bland's interview, he stated that the first time Prince got a Watchtower from Mr. Graham, Prince laughed at it and made fun of it. His initial instinct was not to embrace it. But over time, he gained a mentor/father figure who he eventually bought a house for and excised his wife. I doubt he wasn't being influenced. Maybe he was like a ship tossed around in a storm that that will dock at any port that provides support and structure thinking that he made an independent choice to pick that dock but really the storm drifted him there.




Seahorsie said:





PeteSilas said:



I HAVE thought about that, sometimes we see him as omnipotent but then there are signs of slippage, the dude said and did stupid stuff, not just stupid stuff in some people's eyes (like the JW's or adding rap into his music) but stupid stuff in nearly anyone's eyes like putting slave on his face, going on oprah when his kid died, the contract, etc.., etc..,



We all have greatness in us, and we all have areas (and times) of complete stupidity. You want to see how Prince thought of himself? It's all there, unadulterated in the poems of his music.


Now how did the line go..


"I'm not saying I'm better, no better than you..."



Personally, I like him better just the way he was; crazy, inspired, dripping with music in his soul, eccentric, trying to act mysterious but sometimes coming off goofy, sensual, stylish, funkadelic swirled up in rock, proud, independent, and willing to put in the work. I don't need him to be something close to perfection.....I like all the chips in the gem.






Hummmm yes that is very interesting how life is a circle.
Maybe he was naive and impressionable and subceptable as we are
Towards him to believe everything he jotted down for a song
Was a deep deep reflection of himself. Maybe we are also naive and
Prince is our “watchtower” ????
[Edited 10/1/18 10:18am]
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Reply #169 posted 10/01/18 9:32am

violetcrush

Right now, I'm listening to the Prince Podcast interview with Terry Jackson - Prince's childhood friend from Kindergarten through High School. It's a great renider that Prince was no different than most kids at a young age. Terry's memories of all of the shenanigans with Prince are heartwarming and proof positive that he in fact was human in every way The difference, however, is that Prince, at the age of 12 or 13 decided that he was going to be a successful musician, and his fierce determination surpassed those kids around him. In order to do that though, he needed the influence and help from those around him, and other more experienced people in his orbit.

*

I think it is clear from the many interviews with those who knew Prince as a younger person, and those worked closely with Prince for periods during his career, that he took inspiration and influence from people, places and things throughout his life. This is also apparent in his song lyrics.

*

Again, once he reached fame, Prince worked hard to hide his more "human" and fallible side from the public and his fans. This became increasingly difficult as time went on, however, there were/are many fans who did believe this facade.

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Reply #170 posted 10/01/18 11:00am

PeteSilas

I don't think we can always explain what people do. I knew a dentist, very, very intelligent and he did stupid shit all the time. No amount of explaining or warning would help, he'd do it anyway. Like I said, we're just people. With Prince, who knows how much of the stuff he said he believed. Of course the "time is a trick" speech he once gave came back on him hard and heavy a few years later but I think he really conned himself to think that. In some ways, who could blame him, he looked phenomenal if nothing else for his age. at 40 he looked every bit as good as he did at 20, which is pretty unusual, even for black folks. A lot of it is just how humans rationalize things, Boxers do it all the time, it's what convinces them to keep fighting long after they should have retired "I look the same". The human mind is a funny thing and intelligence seems to help not one bit sometimes.

SkipperLove said:

Hell, maybe the man was much more naive and impressionable than people realize. I think he tried so hard to be independent but I still suspect folks were bending his ear for their own purposes. In Michael Bland's interview, he stated that the first time Prince got a Watchtower from Mr. Graham, Prince laughed at it and made fun of it. His initial instinct was not to embrace it. But over time, he gained a mentor/father figure who he eventually bought a house for and excised his wife. I doubt he wasn't being influenced. Maybe he was like a ship tossed around in a storm that that will dock at any port that provides support and structure thinking that he made an independent choice to pick that dock but really the storm drifted him there.

Seahorsie said:

We all have greatness in us, and we all have areas (and times) of complete stupidity. You want to see how Prince thought of himself? It's all there, unadulterated in the poems of his music.

Now how did the line go..

"I'm not saying I'm better, no better than you..."

Personally, I like him better just the way he was; crazy, inspired, dripping with music in his soul, eccentric, trying to act mysterious but sometimes coming off goofy, sensual, stylish, funkadelic swirled up in rock, proud, independent, and willing to put in the work. I don't need him to be something close to perfection.....I like all the chips in the gem.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #171 posted 10/01/18 11:51am

Krystalkisses

avatar

violetcrush said:



Krystalkisses said:


violetcrush said:



Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.


*


This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.



Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P nut since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else.


The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.


*


So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.




With all due respect, who are you ( or anyone else) to say what is ok or isn't ok for another person to feel about him?
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Reply #172 posted 10/01/18 12:43pm

databank

avatar

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:



Krystalkisses said:


violetcrush said:



Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.


*


This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.



Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P nut since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else.


The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.


*


So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.




With all due respect, who are you ( or anyone else) to say what is ok or isn't ok for another person to feel about him?

100 years of research in psychology and psychiatry.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #173 posted 10/01/18 2:04pm

luvsexy4all

this thread stays open ..and the bootleg thread doesnt...

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Reply #174 posted 10/01/18 2:38pm

violetcrush

databank said:

Krystalkisses said:
With all due respect, who are you ( or anyone else) to say what is ok or isn't ok for another person to feel about him?
100 years of research in psychology and psychiatry.

Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.

This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.

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Reply #175 posted 10/01/18 3:18pm

onlyforaminute

violetcrush said:

databank said:

Krystalkisses said: 100 years of research in psychology and psychiatry.

Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.

This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.



That's interesting. I never heard of that. Makes sense though.

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #176 posted 10/01/18 3:21pm

PeteSilas

violetcrush said:

databank said:

Krystalkisses said: 100 years of research in psychology and psychiatry.

Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.

This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.

then the star is just as crazy as his fans in a lot of cases because many of them rely on them not only for a living but for "love". Judy Garland said crowds saved her life many times, don't know exactly what she meant by that and more than one person has said that Prince was closer to his fans than his own family (maybe true in some ways). He didn't have much of a family, I'm sure there was love there but when you got a mom and dad who've left you to the fates at a young, siblings who have sued, ratted you out, stolen (and maybe even molested) you it might make those primary relations kinda distant.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #177 posted 10/01/18 3:35pm

Krystalkisses

avatar

violetcrush said:



databank said:


Krystalkisses said:
With all due respect, who are you ( or anyone else) to say what is ok or isn't ok for another person to feel about him?

100 years of research in psychology and psychiatry.


Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.



This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.



Is it? I was a Psychology major in college and I wasn't I introduced to this...and I'm not saying some fans don't take it to far...but what I'm asking is who made you guys the priesthood thinking you can say who that pertains to or not...??...you don't even know this person...they said they just came back fro. PP maybe their emotions are still very raw...and btw I find it so funny that some people on here are so quick to diagnose mental illness in others as if their idol was the pillar of mental health..love4oneanother...please actually practice it not just proclaim it please.
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Reply #178 posted 10/01/18 3:37pm

benni

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.

This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.

then the star is just as crazy as his fans in a lot of cases because many of them rely on them not only for a living but for "love". Judy Garland said crowds saved her life many times, don't know exactly what she meant by that and more than one person has said that Prince was closer to his fans than his own family (maybe true in some ways). He didn't have much of a family, I'm sure there was love there but when you got a mom and dad who've left you to the fates at a young, siblings who have sued, ratted you out, stolen (and maybe even molested) you it might make those primary relations kinda distant.


Hyperbole. They do rely on fans to purchase the product they are selling, which includes their selling an image to their fans, to keep them coming back for more. I think that as they develop as a star, and they constantly see adoring fans wherever they go, they may in a sense, "feel close" to the fans, and even have a "relationship" with the fans, in the sense that they continue to sell the fans that image, what they think the fans want of them. But they do not generally know their fans on a personal level, their pains, their loves, their experiences. They just know that without the fans, they would not be rich, would not be a star, and would not be famous. So many of them feel they owe a lot to those fans in the form of mutual adoration, some however can have a dysfunctional relationship with their fans and get tired of the constant adoration and lack of privacy.

To state that Prince felt closer to his fans than family, speaks more to the relationship he had with his family, than to the actual relationship he had with fans. Now, there were some differences with Prince. He would interact with fans on the sly, and possibly got to know quite a few. I know of one person in particular in which she had gotten in an argument/debate with him in an online forum, and she ended up becoming a friend to him and was invited many times to Paisley Park by Prince himself. When you have former bandmates and protegees asking that individual how they are doing after Prince passed, how they are holding up, and they share inside jokes, then it confirms the story that they became friends.

But I would argue that it was only a few of his fans that Prince became close to, got to know, and truly felt closer to them than his own family. Keep in mind that Prince did marry a fan. But the stories of Prince being a friend with fans are few and far inbetween.

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Reply #179 posted 10/01/18 6:08pm

PeteSilas

ya, i know all that, which is why i quantified my statement. I remember gordon parks musing over muhammad ali walking the streets saying how people 'loved' him. He thought it was foolish of ali to see the reactions he got as love, he was right for the most part. it's a strange relationship, to use the song title, this fan/star relationship. stars are usually imbalanced in certain ways which set them apart, not just with their drive to be a star but also in many other ways where they can't really relate to people in a "normal" way. I always think it's bizarre when these people end up "isolated", "lonely" when so many people would love to spend a moment with them. they can't really trust fans because they don't know them and if they let them close enough, as many of them learn, they can get burned. but in prince's case, with his family history, i don't think the people who say his fans were family were exagerrating.

benni said:

PeteSilas said:

then the star is just as crazy as his fans in a lot of cases because many of them rely on them not only for a living but for "love". Judy Garland said crowds saved her life many times, don't know exactly what she meant by that and more than one person has said that Prince was closer to his fans than his own family (maybe true in some ways). He didn't have much of a family, I'm sure there was love there but when you got a mom and dad who've left you to the fates at a young, siblings who have sued, ratted you out, stolen (and maybe even molested) you it might make those primary relations kinda distant.


Hyperbole. They do rely on fans to purchase the product they are selling, which includes their selling an image to their fans, to keep them coming back for more. I think that as they develop as a star, and they constantly see adoring fans wherever they go, they may in a sense, "feel close" to the fans, and even have a "relationship" with the fans, in the sense that they continue to sell the fans that image, what they think the fans want of them. But they do not generally know their fans on a personal level, their pains, their loves, their experiences. They just know that without the fans, they would not be rich, would not be a star, and would not be famous. So many of them feel they owe a lot to those fans in the form of mutual adoration, some however can have a dysfunctional relationship with their fans and get tired of the constant adoration and lack of privacy.

To state that Prince felt closer to his fans than family, speaks more to the relationship he had with his family, than to the actual relationship he had with fans. Now, there were some differences with Prince. He would interact with fans on the sly, and possibly got to know quite a few. I know of one person in particular in which she had gotten in an argument/debate with him in an online forum, and she ended up becoming a friend to him and was invited many times to Paisley Park by Prince himself. When you have former bandmates and protegees asking that individual how they are doing after Prince passed, how they are holding up, and they share inside jokes, then it confirms the story that they became friends.

But I would argue that it was only a few of his fans that Prince became close to, got to know, and truly felt closer to them than his own family. Keep in mind that Prince did marry a fan. But the stories of Prince being a friend with fans are few and far inbetween.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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