independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Tue 13th Nov 2018 7:22pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Hurt and betrayed
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 9 of 14 « First<5678910111213>Last »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #240 posted 10/02/18 1:04pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Let's not forget his mother's 1st child, that she left with that father in Kansas City.

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Prince's father was older, his mother had him when she was 24/25.

My sense was she was 'unavailable' to him after the divorce from John as she had to work several jobs. Then, it sounds like she "chose" her 2nd husband's needs over Prince's needs. (At least Prince seemed to feel that way).

Prince's father, John, seemed to favor his career over his children.

Prince/Tyka must not have felt they were a priority for either of them; either they were fighting or working too much or remarried and re-focused etc.

Yes, these are my thoughts as well. I read in one of the Biographies that Prince had said he felt that he and his Sister were "mistakes". There is no question that he did not feel fully loved or wanted by his parents when he was younger. But, back then many kids spent a good portion of time by themselves, because both parents had to work - and usually long hours. There was a lot of time for them to get into trouble.

*

Andre's Mom looked out for Prince, and Prince's Mother knew he would be safe with her. When Toure mentioned to Susannah that it is not normal for a 12yr old to be living in his friend's basement, she said, "yes, but Prince belonged there. He was safe there. He had a family with Andre and he knew that is where he belonged.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #241 posted 10/02/18 1:18pm

steakfinger

purplefam99 said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Is it? I was a Psychology major in college and I wasn't I introduced to this...and I'm not saying some fans don't take it to far...but what I'm asking is who made you guys the priesthood thinking you can say who that pertains to or not...??...you don't even know this person...they said they just came back fro. PP maybe their emotions are still very raw...and btw I find it so funny that some people on here are so quick to diagnose mental illness in others as if their idol was the pillar of mental health..love4oneanother...please actually practice it not just proclaim it please.

i agree i think diagnosing someone after 2 posts is premature, i wonder if psychology 101 says to

medicate after 3 posts??

I know a lot of idiots on this site that need to be medicated and it becomes apparent after one post.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #242 posted 10/02/18 1:36pm

Mumio

avatar

PeteSilas said:

peggyon said:

Don't know. Sounded like newer/worse shit. He left during the tour. Did not wish to be cajoled back. Would not take P's calls

ok, so he wasn't telling the whole truth on that podcast, for whatever reason.



Given what happened not long after, I wonder how he feels about it all in hindsight?

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #243 posted 10/02/18 1:41pm

peggyon

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Yeah, I listened to the interview with Terry Jackson. He was kinda all over the place at times, forgot which story he was telling half the time and bit self-promoting. Don't think he grasped the "whole picture" re: the nuances of Prince's childhood.

[Edited 10/2/18 12:00pm]

Yes, he was a little bit scattered, but remember he's much older now, and trying to verbally detail events that happened 50 yrs ago within a small window of time. Gotta cut the brotha a little slack for that biggrin wink

Terry is one year older than me and I do not talk like that at all.(We are not all senile) He seemed to be superficially aware of Prince. He did not follow through when the interviewer several questions about John Nelson which I was hoping would add insight into Prince's personality. It was very difficult to glean deeper insight into Prince from this guy. He is also writing a book, of course. I wanted to say, "another of P's 'friends' with little to show for themselves."

He also had an involved, present mother/ father and no siblings which gave him both psychological and financial security, neither of which Prince had.

Bernadette Anderson was an enormously generous spirit but she was a single mother of 7 (With Prince). He was safe but not nurtured in a way that children need. Please do not minimize this.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #244 posted 10/02/18 1:47pm

PeteSilas

Mumio said:

PeteSilas said:

ok, so he wasn't telling the whole truth on that podcast, for whatever reason.



Given what happened not long after, I wonder how he feels about it all in hindsight?

maybe guilty but he was a soundman not a drug counselor. I've always felt guilty cutting people off but, you know how prince said "i don't fire anyone, they fire themselves" well that goes for the other way too, I don't cut people off they cut themselves off when they want to act like jackasses. Only so much you can say or do, people are stubborn creatures for the most part, you can't change them, hell, i can hardly change myself and there are a lot of things i need to change.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #245 posted 10/02/18 2:05pm

Mumio

avatar

PeteSilas said:

Mumio said:



Given what happened not long after, I wonder how he feels about it all in hindsight?

maybe guilty but he was a soundman not a drug counselor. I've always felt guilty cutting people off but, you know how prince said "i don't fire anyone, they fire themselves" well that goes for the other way too, I don't cut people off they cut themselves off when they want to act like jackasses. Only so much you can say or do, people are stubborn creatures for the most part, you can't change them, hell, i can hardly change myself and there are a lot of things i need to change.



I get what you are saying but we don't really know that the issue had anything to do with drugs. Do we? I could have missed something but don't recall seeing anything that was specific.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #246 posted 10/02/18 2:06pm

peggyon

PeteSilas said:

Mumio said:



Given what happened not long after, I wonder how he feels about it all in hindsight?

maybe guilty but he was a soundman not a drug counselor. I've always felt guilty cutting people off but, you know how prince said "i don't fire anyone, they fire themselves" well that goes for the other way too, I don't cut people off they cut themselves off when they want to act like jackasses. Only so much you can say or do, people are stubborn creatures for the most part, you can't change them, hell, i can hardly change myself and there are a lot of things i need to change.

He did address that question (P's death) and he said it was still the right decision for him to

leave the tour. He also said he took P's death hard. Took about one month to get his bearings.

He seemed like a really nice, balanced, super-articulate, talented guy. I can see why Prince liked to work with him. He also struck me someone who knew his worth; quietly not taking shit from Prince.

At some point he started to introduce Prince to the audience (from behind the stage).If they were in Europe, he would introduce P in the native language of the country. He said Prince would smile and say "Now that's what I'm talking about!"

His impersonations, though, were killer, especially Maxwell and Prince.I bet P appreciated his wit/humor as well as his other talents.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #247 posted 10/02/18 2:25pm

PeteSilas

Mumio said:

PeteSilas said:

maybe guilty but he was a soundman not a drug counselor. I've always felt guilty cutting people off but, you know how prince said "i don't fire anyone, they fire themselves" well that goes for the other way too, I don't cut people off they cut themselves off when they want to act like jackasses. Only so much you can say or do, people are stubborn creatures for the most part, you can't change them, hell, i can hardly change myself and there are a lot of things i need to change.



I get what you are saying but we don't really know that the issue had anything to do with drugs. Do we? I could have missed something but don't recall seeing anything that was specific.

that is what i'm trying to find out, which is hard because i wasn't there. he's said a couple different things so i'm reading between the lines.zehetner claims he was irritable and out of character when he was on the drugs, at least she spoke clearly.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #248 posted 10/02/18 2:49pm

Mumio

avatar

peggyon said:

PeteSilas said:

maybe guilty but he was a soundman not a drug counselor. I've always felt guilty cutting people off but, you know how prince said "i don't fire anyone, they fire themselves" well that goes for the other way too, I don't cut people off they cut themselves off when they want to act like jackasses. Only so much you can say or do, people are stubborn creatures for the most part, you can't change them, hell, i can hardly change myself and there are a lot of things i need to change.

He did address that question (P's death) and he said it was still the right decision for him to

leave the tour. He also said he took P's death hard. Took about one month to get his bearings.

He seemed like a really nice, balanced, super-articulate, talented guy. I can see why Prince liked to work with him. He also struck me someone who knew his worth; quietly not taking shit from Prince.

At some point he started to introduce Prince to the audience (from behind the stage).If they were in Europe, he would introduce P in the native language of the country. He said Prince would smile and say "Now that's what I'm talking about!"

His impersonations, though, were killer, especially Maxwell and Prince.I bet P appreciated his wit/humor as well as his other talents.



Thanks peggyon smile

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #249 posted 10/02/18 2:50pm

Mumio

avatar

PeteSilas said:

Mumio said:



I get what you are saying but we don't really know that the issue had anything to do with drugs. Do we? I could have missed something but don't recall seeing anything that was specific.

that is what i'm trying to find out, which is hard because i wasn't there. he's said a couple different things so i'm reading between the lines.zehetner claims he was irritable and out of character when he was on the drugs, at least she spoke clearly.


Let us know if you come up with anything...I will do the same. I hope we find out at some point.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #250 posted 10/02/18 2:57pm

peggyon

PeteSilas said:

Mumio said:



I get what you are saying but we don't really know that the issue had anything to do with drugs. Do we? I could have missed something but don't recall seeing anything that was specific.

that is what i'm trying to find out, which is hard because i wasn't there. he's said a couple different things so i'm reading between the lines.zehetner claims he was irritable and out of character when he was on the drugs, at least she spoke clearly.

He was attempting to be diplomatic (IMO). He said something mild like it wasn't fun for him anymore.

Pretty sure something went down. To leave a tour mid-stream and say "I don't want to be reached" by P.

He seemed like a very stable, balanced person who had worked with P for many years off- and-on, so it was likely pretty bad.

After reading the investigative files, I found Crystal to be extraordinarily forthcoming.

I don't think many others were comfortable with that level of candor.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #251 posted 10/02/18 3:13pm

CatB

PennyPurple said:

I'm not talking about what he put in songs. He most definately was locked in a closet for hours as punishment, he was also made to dig up the dandelions in the entire yard as punishment too. And this was by his step father.

And when we are young don't we all break the rules? His father kicked him out knowing he had nowhere to go, knowing his son had no place to live. Prince even called his father from a phone booth crying and begging to come back, and his father said no.

His father abandoned his older kids and abandoned Prince and Tyka. His father couldn't even get it right the 2nd time around.


Let's not make excuses for abusers.




This. The mixed messages in his childhood really messed with him. How christian is it to kick out your child (and for something that was but a reflection of your own ways) and be this unforgiving.

There is no excuse for it, and this was only one defining event in his childhood. It's always easy to say those were the times or it was the generation where abuse and neglect were normal. Having grown up with both myself, I also always thought that it was normal and that it surely happened in all families. Until I started visiting my school friends and saw how they interacted with their parents and how it was so very different from my own home. Not even harsh words, no loveless commands but mutual respect. The kids had the chance to live their "difficult" time aka teenage years, with all the emotional stuff it brings with it. While I got beatings and threats for "being angry". I never knew it then but later a friend who lived with her family in the apartment below said to me how she could always hear doors slamming and my father yelling at me. Something I couldn't even recall anymore and I felt embarrassed. This is what it does to you and what it did to Prince as well - you find ways to create a "happy" childhood for yourself (children can be very resilient and cope for a long time) and you try to put things into perspective and play them down by saying things like "My father was a strict disciplinarian but all fathers were". That's heartbreaking for it isn't true. It's just our way to hide the feeling that "I'm not right", "I'm a mistake" (I still say this today), "Something must be wrong with me". Feelings of shame which are excused by telling ourselves that it was normal and happened everywhere. Both parties used that excuse - the parents and the children.

I've always found Prince's moving into basements (not only at Andre's) interesting. He always had a thing for dark rooms with no windows, or covered windows. I've experienced this myself - I always had the blinds drawn and would sit in a dark room. People found it funny or quirky but later, when I studied psychology I read that the basement of a house represents the womb. We're essentially cave beings and the mother's womb is the original cave. In regards to Prince and never having felt mothered I found this very interesting. Plus, he always had furs and pillows = soft objects all over the floors and walls.

He sure didn't move out to "make music". One look at his siblings and their lives tells you a lot about a dysfunctional family and a broken home with not much love.



[Edited 10/2/18 15:15pm]

"Time is space spent with U"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #252 posted 10/02/18 3:21pm

violetcrush

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, he was a little bit scattered, but remember he's much older now, and trying to verbally detail events that happened 50 yrs ago within a small window of time. Gotta cut the brotha a little slack for that biggrin wink

Terry is one year older than me and I do not talk like that at all.(We are not all senile) He seemed to be superficially aware of Prince. He did not follow through when the interviewer several questions about John Nelson which I was hoping would add insight into Prince's personality. It was very difficult to glean deeper insight into Prince from this guy. He is also writing a book, of course. I wanted to say, "another of P's 'friends' with little to show for themselves."

He also had an involved, present mother/ father and no siblings which gave him both psychological and financial security, neither of which Prince had.

Bernadette Anderson was an enormously generous spirit but she was a single mother of 7 (With Prince). He was safe but not nurtured in a way that children need. Please do not minimize this.

I don't think Terry knew Prince's Dad well enough to give details about their relationship. Either that, or he's saving that information for the book. My feeling is that he had a typical childhood friendship with Prince, in that, most of his interaction was with Prince and did not involve his parents. Although, I'm sure he saw enough to know that Prince was not being physically abused by his Father. He gave enough detail to show that he knew the situation with Princes Stepfather and why he left that home.

*

I did not say that Bernadette was an equal substitute for Prince's Mother. The Mother/Son bond is very important, and there is no doubt that their relationship was lacking the nurture and time that Prince needed as a younger child. Bernadette, however, did give Prince the feeling of safety and security, and more importantly, a place to call home from age 12-16. Most importantly, she allowed him to play music and practice any time. She also expected him to respect her rules. Pepe Willie has told the story of Bernadette coming home from work early and Prince walking up the stairs with a girl. She asked him if he had gone to school that day, and he told her he had not. Pepe stated she pulled his pants down and beat his butt in front of the girl and everyone. I'm sure Prince knew that she cared about him and his success. Well, he definitely knew, because he sang about it in The Sacrifice Of Victor.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #253 posted 10/02/18 3:28pm

PennyPurple

avatar

CatB said:

PennyPurple said:

I'm not talking about what he put in songs. He most definately was locked in a closet for hours as punishment, he was also made to dig up the dandelions in the entire yard as punishment too. And this was by his step father.

And when we are young don't we all break the rules? His father kicked him out knowing he had nowhere to go, knowing his son had no place to live. Prince even called his father from a phone booth crying and begging to come back, and his father said no.

His father abandoned his older kids and abandoned Prince and Tyka. His father couldn't even get it right the 2nd time around.


Let's not make excuses for abusers.




This. The mixed messages in his childhood really messed with him. How christian is it to kick out your child (and for something that was but a reflection of your own ways) and be this unforgiving.

There is no excuse for it, and this was only one defining event in his childhood. It's always easy to say those were the times or it was the generation where abuse and neglect were normal. Having grown up with both myself, I also always thought that it was normal and that it surely happened in all families. Until I started visiting my school friends and saw how they interacted with their parents and how it was so very different from my own home. Not even harsh words, no loveless commands but mutual respect. The kids had the chance to live their "difficult" time aka teenage years, with all the emotional stuff it brings with it. While I got beatings and threats for "being angry". I never knew it then but later a friend who lived with her family in the apartment below said to me how she could always hear doors slamming and my father yelling at me. Something I couldn't even recall anymore and I felt embarrassed. This is what it does to you and what it did to Prince as well - you find ways to create a "happy" childhood for yourself (children can be very resilient and cope for a long time) and you try to put things into perspective and play them down by saying things like "My father was a strict disciplinarian but all fathers were". That's heartbreaking for it isn't true. It's just our way to hide the feeling that "I'm not right", "I'm a mistake" (I still say this today), "Something must be wrong with me". Feelings of shame which are excused by telling ourselves that it was normal and happened everywhere. Both parties used that excuse - the parents and the children.

I've always found Prince's moving into basements (not only at Andre's) interesting. He always had a thing for dark rooms with no windows, or covered windows. I've experienced this myself - I always had the blinds drawn and would sit in a dark room. People found it funny or quirky but later, when I studied psychology I read that the basement of a house represents the womb. We're essentially cave beings and the mother's womb is the original cave. In regards to Prince and never having felt mothered I found this very interesting. Plus, he always had furs and pillows = soft objects all over the floors and walls.

He sure didn't move out to "make music". One look at his siblings and their lives tells you a lot about a dysfunctional family and a broken home with not much love.



[Edited 10/2/18 15:15pm]

Thanks Cat. hug

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #254 posted 10/02/18 3:39pm

violetcrush

CatB said:

PennyPurple said:

I'm not talking about what he put in songs. He most definately was locked in a closet for hours as punishment, he was also made to dig up the dandelions in the entire yard as punishment too. And this was by his step father.

And when we are young don't we all break the rules? His father kicked him out knowing he had nowhere to go, knowing his son had no place to live. Prince even called his father from a phone booth crying and begging to come back, and his father said no.

His father abandoned his older kids and abandoned Prince and Tyka. His father couldn't even get it right the 2nd time around.


Let's not make excuses for abusers.




This. The mixed messages in his childhood really messed with him. How christian is it to kick out your child (and for something that was but a reflection of your own ways) and be this unforgiving.

There is no excuse for it, and this was only one defining event in his childhood. It's always easy to say those were the times or it was the generation where abuse and neglect were normal. Having grown up with both myself, I also always thought that it was normal and that it surely happened in all families. Until I started visiting my school friends and saw how they interacted with their parents and how it was so very different from my own home. Not even harsh words, no loveless commands but mutual respect. The kids had the chance to live their "difficult" time aka teenage years, with all the emotional stuff it brings with it. While I got beatings and threats for "being angry". I never knew it then but later a friend who lived with her family in the apartment below said to me how she could always hear doors slamming and my father yelling at me. Something I couldn't even recall anymore and I felt embarrassed. This is what it does to you and what it did to Prince as well - you find ways to create a "happy" childhood for yourself (children can be very resilient and cope for a long time) and you try to put things into perspective and play them down by saying things like "My father was a strict disciplinarian but all fathers were". That's heartbreaking for it isn't true. It's just our way to hide the feeling that "I'm not right", "I'm a mistake" (I still say this today), "Something must be wrong with me". Feelings of shame which are excused by telling ourselves that it was normal and happened everywhere. Both parties used that excuse - the parents and the children.

I've always found Prince's moving into basements (not only at Andre's) interesting. He always had a thing for dark rooms with no windows, or covered windows. I've experienced this myself - I always had the blinds drawn and would sit in a dark room. People found it funny or quirky but later, when I studied psychology I read that the basement of a house represents the womb. We're essentially cave beings and the mother's womb is the original cave. In regards to Prince and never having felt mothered I found this very interesting. Plus, he always had furs and pillows = soft objects all over the floors and walls.

He sure didn't move out to "make music". One look at his siblings and their lives tells you a lot about a dysfunctional family and a broken home with not much love.



[Edited 10/2/18 15:15pm]

Andre, during his interview on Prince Podcast, stated that when Prince first moved into his home they were sharing his bedroom upstairs. He stated that he was sloppy, and it bothered Prince to the point that he wanted to move down to the basement. He wanted his own space. I imagine there would also have been more room for him to play the instruments and a quiet space for him to write songs. I'm not at all discounting what you are saying about a dark space representing "the womb", and that certainly is possible. He also was nocturnal from a young age, so he would've needed a very dark space to sleep during the day - this has been stated by his associates and girlfriends.

*

I think we have to be careful with how much blame we put on his parents now that we have more information and detail from many of those who were around him back then. There were lots of broken homes within Prince's immediate cirlce - Andre, Chazz, and I'm sure many more. Kids grew up very fast. Jesse Johnson talked about taking a bus out of his town as a teenager, and he only had enough money to get him to MN, which is why he ended up there.

*

Prince moved out of his Mother's home, because he clashed with his Stepfather, and because he was not permitted to play music or practice with his friends in the house. Terry Jackson stated this during his interview, and considering the fact that he was actually there during that time, I would tend to believe him. During Toure's interview with Susannah, she also stated, "he wanted to play, he was going to be a player, and nothing was going to stop him, and if that meant moving out to do it then that's what he was going to do. He didn't have to leave, he chose to go."

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #255 posted 10/02/18 3:51pm

violetcrush

violetcrush said:

CatB said:




This. The mixed messages in his childhood really messed with him. How christian is it to kick out your child (and for something that was but a reflection of your own ways) and be this unforgiving.

There is no excuse for it, and this was only one defining event in his childhood. It's always easy to say those were the times or it was the generation where abuse and neglect were normal. Having grown up with both myself, I also always thought that it was normal and that it surely happened in all families. Until I started visiting my school friends and saw how they interacted with their parents and how it was so very different from my own home. Not even harsh words, no loveless commands but mutual respect. The kids had the chance to live their "difficult" time aka teenage years, with all the emotional stuff it brings with it. While I got beatings and threats for "being angry". I never knew it then but later a friend who lived with her family in the apartment below said to me how she could always hear doors slamming and my father yelling at me. Something I couldn't even recall anymore and I felt embarrassed. This is what it does to you and what it did to Prince as well - you find ways to create a "happy" childhood for yourself (children can be very resilient and cope for a long time) and you try to put things into perspective and play them down by saying things like "My father was a strict disciplinarian but all fathers were". That's heartbreaking for it isn't true. It's just our way to hide the feeling that "I'm not right", "I'm a mistake" (I still say this today), "Something must be wrong with me". Feelings of shame which are excused by telling ourselves that it was normal and happened everywhere. Both parties used that excuse - the parents and the children.

I've always found Prince's moving into basements (not only at Andre's) interesting. He always had a thing for dark rooms with no windows, or covered windows. I've experienced this myself - I always had the blinds drawn and would sit in a dark room. People found it funny or quirky but later, when I studied psychology I read that the basement of a house represents the womb. We're essentially cave beings and the mother's womb is the original cave. In regards to Prince and never having felt mothered I found this very interesting. Plus, he always had furs and pillows = soft objects all over the floors and walls.

He sure didn't move out to "make music". One look at his siblings and their lives tells you a lot about a dysfunctional family and a broken home with not much love.



[Edited 10/2/18 15:15pm]

Andre, during his interview on Prince Podcast, stated that when Prince first moved into his home they were sharing his bedroom upstairs. He stated that he was sloppy, and it bothered Prince to the point that he wanted to move down to the basement. He wanted his own space. I imagine there would also have been more room for him to play the instruments and a quiet space for him to write songs. I'm not at all discounting what you are saying about a dark space representing "the womb", and that certainly is possible. He also was nocturnal from a young age, so he would've needed a very dark space to sleep during the day - this has been stated by his associates and girlfriends.

*

I think we have to be careful with how much blame we put on his parents now that we have more information and detail from many of those who were around him back then. There were lots of broken homes within Prince's immediate cirlce - Andre, Chazz, and I'm sure many more. Kids grew up very fast. Jesse Johnson talked about taking a bus out of his town as a teenager, and he only had enough money to get him to MN, which is why he ended up there.

*

Prince moved out of his Mother's home, because he clashed with his Stepfather, and because he was not permitted to play music or practice with his friends in the house. Terry Jackson stated this during his interview, and considering the fact that he was actually there during that time, I would tend to believe him. During Toure's interview with Susannah, she also stated, "he wanted to play, he was going to be a player, and nothing was going to stop him, and if that meant moving out to do it then that's what he was going to do. He didn't have to leave, he chose to go."

Prince's lyric from The Sacrifice of Victor:

*

Never understood my old friends laughing
They got high when everything else got wrong (pass the booze up here)
Dr. king was killed and the streets
They started burnin'
When the smoke was cleared, their high was gone
Education got important, so important 2 victor
A little more important than ripple and weed
Bernadette's a lady, and she told me (what she say?)
"whatever you do son, a little discipline is what you need,
Is what you need, you need to sacrifice"

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #256 posted 10/02/18 3:52pm

PennyPurple

avatar

violetcrush said:

Andre, during his interview on Prince Podcast, stated that when Prince first moved into his home they were sharing his bedroom upstairs. He stated that he was sloppy, and it bothered Prince to the point that he wanted to move down to the basement. He wanted his own space. I imagine there would also have been more room for him to play the instruments and a quiet space for him to write songs. I'm not at all discounting what you are saying about a dark space representing "the womb", and that certainly is possible. He also was nocturnal from a young age, so he would've needed a very dark space to sleep during the day - this has been stated by his associates and girlfriends.

*

I think we have to be careful with how much blame we put on his parents now that we have more information and detail from many of those who were around him back then. There were lots of broken homes within Prince's immediate cirlce - Andre, Chazz, and I'm sure many more. Kids grew up very fast. Jesse Johnson talked about taking a bus out of his town as a teenager, and he only had enough money to get him to MN, which is why he ended up there.

*

Prince moved out of his Mother's home, because he clashed with his Stepfather, and because he was not permitted to play music or practice with his friends in the house. Terry Jackson stated this during his interview, and considering the fact that he was actually there during that time, I would tend to believe him. During Toure's interview with Susannah, she also stated, "he wanted to play, he was going to be a player, and nothing was going to stop him, and if that meant moving out to do it then that's what he was going to do. He didn't have to leave, he chose to go."

Terry Jackson has said several different things. He said that Prince lived with him too, but then he said that Prince asked to live with them and Terry's mom said no.

From past history, you can not take everything his 'friends' say as truth.


Yes, Prince moved out of his mom's house, but he was kicked out of his father's house with no place to live.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #257 posted 10/02/18 4:05pm

violetcrush

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Andre, during his interview on Prince Podcast, stated that when Prince first moved into his home they were sharing his bedroom upstairs. He stated that he was sloppy, and it bothered Prince to the point that he wanted to move down to the basement. He wanted his own space. I imagine there would also have been more room for him to play the instruments and a quiet space for him to write songs. I'm not at all discounting what you are saying about a dark space representing "the womb", and that certainly is possible. He also was nocturnal from a young age, so he would've needed a very dark space to sleep during the day - this has been stated by his associates and girlfriends.

*

I think we have to be careful with how much blame we put on his parents now that we have more information and detail from many of those who were around him back then. There were lots of broken homes within Prince's immediate cirlce - Andre, Chazz, and I'm sure many more. Kids grew up very fast. Jesse Johnson talked about taking a bus out of his town as a teenager, and he only had enough money to get him to MN, which is why he ended up there.

*

Prince moved out of his Mother's home, because he clashed with his Stepfather, and because he was not permitted to play music or practice with his friends in the house. Terry Jackson stated this during his interview, and considering the fact that he was actually there during that time, I would tend to believe him. During Toure's interview with Susannah, she also stated, "he wanted to play, he was going to be a player, and nothing was going to stop him, and if that meant moving out to do it then that's what he was going to do. He didn't have to leave, he chose to go."

Terry Jackson has said several different things. He said that Prince lived with him too, but then he said that Prince asked to live with them and Terry's mom said no.

From past history, you can not take everything his 'friends' say as truth.


Yes, Prince moved out of his mom's house, but he was kicked out of his father's house with no place to live.

It has been stated by many of his friends during that time, and also Prince, that he lived at several homes before asking Andre if he could stay with him.

*

Yes, I know that Prince's Father kicked him out, and when he called to apologize his Father still would not allow him to come back. Brutal, harsh, and seemingly not acceptable. However, I am guessing his Father was in contact with his Mother, and knew that Prince could go back there - whether Prince wanted to or not. So he was not actually "homeless" - other than in his own mind, because he was not going to go back to live with his Mother. I have no doubt that this was a terrible time for him, and I'm sure he felt very alone, but he was not living on the streets. He had relatives and friends taking him in. He was living with his Aunt for awhile, who lived across the street from Pepe Willie, which I believe is how they met.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #258 posted 10/02/18 4:07pm

SkipperLove

The only people who can really shed light on this stuff are mostly dead--Prince, his mother, his stepfather and his father..his sister is also a source and she describes a somewhat distant mother. Anyone Prince confided in privately might be a decent source as well as long as we take it with a grain of salt. Chazz trying to defend his family as a whole doesn't strike me as someone who would know all the ins and outs. I don't know what many of my cousins' lives are like with their parents. Terry would know some stuff but if Prince wasn't confiding in him, it would be limited. Andre said that Prince didn't like to talk about his family life but that he remembered him saying "I can't take this shit" in reference to his family and he also stated that his family initially wouldn't let Prince play with him because they thought he was a bad influence..so I assume if there was a friendship between Mattie and Mrs. Anderson, then it must have come after P moved in with her. Regardless whether P chose to leave or not, and even if it was motivated by his music, music might have been his way of expressing himself, may have been what validated him as a young man If his family couldn't at least give him that, then they were being a bit unloving in that regard. Plus, the whole argument that Prince got kicked out over girls..if that is true, then that is a stupid reason to kick out a 12 year old boy...especially if the girl was older. I struggle with my son but I would never let him leave--period. I would fight him tooth and nail so he knew I loved him. I don't think his family is evil or completely lacking love, but I do think they were distracted, hardline, and a bit neglectful.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Andre, during his interview on Prince Podcast, stated that when Prince first moved into his home they were sharing his bedroom upstairs. He stated that he was sloppy, and it bothered Prince to the point that he wanted to move down to the basement. He wanted his own space. I imagine there would also have been more room for him to play the instruments and a quiet space for him to write songs. I'm not at all discounting what you are saying about a dark space representing "the womb", and that certainly is possible. He also was nocturnal from a young age, so he would've needed a very dark space to sleep during the day - this has been stated by his associates and girlfriends.

*

I think we have to be careful with how much blame we put on his parents now that we have more information and detail from many of those who were around him back then. There were lots of broken homes within Prince's immediate cirlce - Andre, Chazz, and I'm sure many more. Kids grew up very fast. Jesse Johnson talked about taking a bus out of his town as a teenager, and he only had enough money to get him to MN, which is why he ended up there.

*

Prince moved out of his Mother's home, because he clashed with his Stepfather, and because he was not permitted to play music or practice with his friends in the house. Terry Jackson stated this during his interview, and considering the fact that he was actually there during that time, I would tend to believe him. During Toure's interview with Susannah, she also stated, "he wanted to play, he was going to be a player, and nothing was going to stop him, and if that meant moving out to do it then that's what he was going to do. He didn't have to leave, he chose to go."

Terry Jackson has said several different things. He said that Prince lived with him too, but then he said that Prince asked to live with them and Terry's mom said no.

From past history, you can not take everything his 'friends' say as truth.


Yes, Prince moved out of his mom's house, but he was kicked out of his father's house with no place to live.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #259 posted 10/02/18 4:35pm

violetcrush

SkipperLove said:

The only people who can really shed light on this stuff are mostly dead--Prince, his mother, his stepfather and his father..his sister is also a source and she describes a somewhat distant mother. Anyone Prince confided in privately might be a decent source as well as long as we take it with a grain of salt. Chazz trying to defend his family as a whole doesn't strike me as someone who would know all the ins and outs. I don't know what many of my cousins' lives are like with their parents. Terry would know some stuff but if Prince wasn't confiding in him, it would be limited. Andre said that Prince didn't like to talk about his family life but that he remembered him saying "I can't take this shit" in reference to his family and he also stated that his family initially wouldn't let Prince play with him because they thought he was a bad influence..so I assume if there was a friendship between Mattie and Mrs. Anderson, then it must have come after P moved in with her. Regardless whether P chose to leave or not, and even if it was motivated by his music, music might have been his way of expressing himself, may have been what validated him as a young man If his family couldn't at least give him that, then they were being a bit unloving in that regard. Plus, the whole argument that Prince got kicked out over girls..if that is true, then that is a stupid reason to kick out a 12 year old boy...especially if the girl was older. I struggle with my son but I would never let him leave--period. I would fight him tooth and nail so he knew I loved him. I don't think his family is evil or completely lacking love, but I do think they were distracted, hardline, and a bit neglectful.

PennyPurple said:

Terry Jackson has said several different things. He said that Prince lived with him too, but then he said that Prince asked to live with them and Terry's mom said no.

From past history, you can not take everything his 'friends' say as truth.


Yes, Prince moved out of his mom's house, but he was kicked out of his father's house with no place to live.

I hear what you are saying, but it seems clear to me that Andre, Chazz, Terry, Pepe, Morris, and other childhood friends were as close to Prince as anyone would get at that time and anytime in the future. I am sure there were conversations about homelife, especially between Prince and Andre, but I doubt any of them went into too much detail about it. I don't think that is something that boys would discuss. I'm sure Prince's comment of "I can't take this shit anymore" was related to the fact that he was very restricted at his Mother's house.

*

It seems that Prince's Father was a contradiction in terms of his strict Christian beliefs and his soical/musical world. He's got Prince going to the 7th Day Adventist services, but then heading down to the local strip joint to play his jazz music. No doubt that was confusing for Prince, and also something that Prince struggled with as he aged and became famous.

*

I think feeling neglected was just one of the issues for Prince. He was also picked on because of his short stature, and he was bussed to a white elementary school where he was teased and called the "n" word. He was also naturally introverted and did not socialize, which I'm sure made things harder for him. It makes sense that he gravitated toward music, because of his natural talent and it was something he could do on his own.

*

Here is part of his interview with Jon Bream Jan 1979, talking about his childhood and his time spent learning to play:

During his formative years, Prince preferred to make music rather than listen to it. His childhood was rather introverted.

"I missed out on a lot, but I don’t regret it. I missed out on socializing. But I get high off playing my music or going to a movie alone. I used to like to play sports, but I had to quit that. I used to want to go to college. I certainly don’t have time for that. At one time, I wanted to get married and I don’t have time for that. I wanted kids, too. But I don’t have time for that, either. I think the things I missed out on, my mind has changed about them. I think I’ve done what I wanted to do in life. In teen-age life.”

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #260 posted 10/02/18 4:50pm

SkipperLove

If you feel neglected, in some way or another, you probably are. Parents make mistakes even if they are decent and well-intentioned. Prince was an enigma to most people who knew him. It was partly his nature and that in itself leads people to make assumptions based on their own experiences. The people who would really know the daily inner workings of that family are the people i mentioned. Prince is still a product of his environment. He wasn't just born with demons and feeling neglected. And if he was born with extreme introversion and social awkwardness, then he needed guidance (emotionally and socially) even more than the average kid. It is controversial to even imply that he might have had some autism, but if he did, then you can't just parent him like he is the average kid. They need avenues to express themselves, stability, and quite a bit of guidance etc. Barring the autism angle, Prince may have just been an introverted kid who expressed himself through music like his father did. Taking that away from someone can lead to a great deal of sadness for that person. I understand the family putting guidelines on his behavior, but taking away his music after he had spent so much time alone doing it and then cutting him off from his friends, that would have been (I imagine) pretty depressing for him.


As for Prince's statement in 1979, I honestly think he was depicting himself as a conflicted young man who longed for both music and those other things and unfortunately figured the other things were just unattainable for himself. He accepted his fate. Remember his dad supposedly told him that he couldn't have both (presumably because he himself didn't get both) and this dad named him after his own jazz band and once stated that he named him Prince Rogers because he wanted him to live the life he couldn't. The mixed messages must have been quite confusing. One parent saying that music is everything and the other parent saying music ain't at all important. It almost feels like his mom and stepdad were trying to make sure Prince didn't turn into his dad and then gave up on him when it was obvious that he was heading in the direction. The lack of balance or attempt to find balance for this kid was a mistake in my opinion. He seemed torn between two parents. But remember a young man tends to naturally model himself off his father. P's father was a calm presense for the most part. His mom's personality according to P was wilder. His step-dads was hardline somewhat. It sounds like Mrs. Anderson for a short time offered the balance he couldn't find at either of his parents' homes.

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

The only people who can really shed light on this stuff are mostly dead--Prince, his mother, his stepfather and his father..his sister is also a source and she describes a somewhat distant mother. Anyone Prince confided in privately might be a decent source as well as long as we take it with a grain of salt. Chazz trying to defend his family as a whole doesn't strike me as someone who would know all the ins and outs. I don't know what many of my cousins' lives are like with their parents. Terry would know some stuff but if Prince wasn't confiding in him, it would be limited. Andre said that Prince didn't like to talk about his family life but that he remembered him saying "I can't take this shit" in reference to his family and he also stated that his family initially wouldn't let Prince play with him because they thought he was a bad influence..so I assume if there was a friendship between Mattie and Mrs. Anderson, then it must have come after P moved in with her. Regardless whether P chose to leave or not, and even if it was motivated by his music, music might have been his way of expressing himself, may have been what validated him as a young man If his family couldn't at least give him that, then they were being a bit unloving in that regard. Plus, the whole argument that Prince got kicked out over girls..if that is true, then that is a stupid reason to kick out a 12 year old boy...especially if the girl was older. I struggle with my son but I would never let him leave--period. I would fight him tooth and nail so he knew I loved him. I don't think his family is evil or completely lacking love, but I do think they were distracted, hardline, and a bit neglectful.

I hear what you are saying, but it seems clear to me that Andre, Chazz, Terry, Pepe, Morris, and other childhood friends were as close to Prince as anyone would get at that time and anytime in the future. I am sure there were conversations about homelife, especially between Prince and Andre, but I doubt any of them went into too much detail about it. I don't think that is something that boys would discuss. I'm sure Prince's comment of "I can't take this shit anymore" was related to the fact that he was very restricted at his Mother's house.

*

It seems that Prince's Father was a contradiction in terms of his strict Christian beliefs and his soical/musical world. He's got Prince going to the 7th Day Adventist services, but then heading down to the local strip joint to play his jazz music. No doubt that was confusing for Prince, and also something that Prince struggled with as he aged and became famous.

*

I think feeling neglected was just one of the issues for Prince. He was also picked on because of his short stature, and he was bussed to a white elementary school where he was teased and called the "n" word. He was also naturally introverted and did not socialize, which I'm sure made things harder for him. It makes sense that he gravitated toward music, because of his natural talent and it was something he could do on his own.

*

Here is part of his interview with Jon Bream Jan 1979, talking about his childhood and his time spent learning to play:

During his formative years, Prince preferred to make music rather than listen to it. His childhood was rather introverted.

"I missed out on a lot, but I don’t regret it. I missed out on socializing. But I get high off playing my music or going to a movie alone. I used to like to play sports, but I had to quit that. I used to want to go to college. I certainly don’t have time for that. At one time, I wanted to get married and I don’t have time for that. I wanted kids, too. But I don’t have time for that, either. I think the things I missed out on, my mind has changed about them. I think I’ve done what I wanted to do in life. In teen-age life.”

[Edited 10/2/18 16:55pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #261 posted 10/02/18 5:15pm

Seahorsie

Just watch him singing the words to "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child", in the video. There is a lot of festering emotion in there. Musicians are poets, and poets put things in their words that they would not feel comfortable speaking in real-life situations. It must be very cathartic, but wow, what a naked, soul-baring experience music can be. Too scary for me most of the time....

shrug

Good morning children...take a look out your window.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #262 posted 10/02/18 5:40pm

benni

The Oprah Winfrey interview - Part III talks about his childhood.


Oprah: "Your father was an abusive man, right? That's what I've read, but I never know what's true or what's not."

Prince: "He had his moments."

Oprah: "What is the most autobiographical scene in Purple Rain for you?"

Prince: "I'll say that it was, uh, probably the scene with, um, me looking at my mother crying."

It sounds like there may have been some domestic violence in the home, or verbal abuse towards Mattie?

[Edited 10/2/18 17:45pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #263 posted 10/02/18 6:04pm

benni

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

The only people who can really shed light on this stuff are mostly dead--Prince, his mother, his stepfather and his father..his sister is also a source and she describes a somewhat distant mother. Anyone Prince confided in privately might be a decent source as well as long as we take it with a grain of salt. Chazz trying to defend his family as a whole doesn't strike me as someone who would know all the ins and outs. I don't know what many of my cousins' lives are like with their parents. Terry would know some stuff but if Prince wasn't confiding in him, it would be limited. Andre said that Prince didn't like to talk about his family life but that he remembered him saying "I can't take this shit" in reference to his family and he also stated that his family initially wouldn't let Prince play with him because they thought he was a bad influence..so I assume if there was a friendship between Mattie and Mrs. Anderson, then it must have come after P moved in with her. Regardless whether P chose to leave or not, and even if it was motivated by his music, music might have been his way of expressing himself, may have been what validated him as a young man If his family couldn't at least give him that, then they were being a bit unloving in that regard. Plus, the whole argument that Prince got kicked out over girls..if that is true, then that is a stupid reason to kick out a 12 year old boy...especially if the girl was older. I struggle with my son but I would never let him leave--period. I would fight him tooth and nail so he knew I loved him. I don't think his family is evil or completely lacking love, but I do think they were distracted, hardline, and a bit neglectful.

I hear what you are saying, but it seems clear to me that Andre, Chazz, Terry, Pepe, Morris, and other childhood friends were as close to Prince as anyone would get at that time and anytime in the future. I am sure there were conversations about homelife, especially between Prince and Andre, but I doubt any of them went into too much detail about it. I don't think that is something that boys would discuss. I'm sure Prince's comment of "I can't take this shit anymore" was related to the fact that he was very restricted at his Mother's house.

*

It seems that Prince's Father was a contradiction in terms of his strict Christian beliefs and his soical/musical world. He's got Prince going to the 7th Day Adventist services, but then heading down to the local strip joint to play his jazz music. No doubt that was confusing for Prince, and also something that Prince struggled with as he aged and became famous.

*

I think feeling neglected was just one of the issues for Prince. He was also picked on because of his short stature, and he was bussed to a white elementary school where he was teased and called the "n" word. He was also naturally introverted and did not socialize, which I'm sure made things harder for him. It makes sense that he gravitated toward music, because of his natural talent and it was something he could do on his own.

*

Here is part of his interview with Jon Bream Jan 1979, talking about his childhood and his time spent learning to play:

During his formative years, Prince preferred to make music rather than listen to it. His childhood was rather introverted.

"I missed out on a lot, but I don’t regret it. I missed out on socializing. But I get high off playing my music or going to a movie alone. I used to like to play sports, but I had to quit that. I used to want to go to college. I certainly don’t have time for that. At one time, I wanted to get married and I don’t have time for that. I wanted kids, too. But I don’t have time for that, either. I think the things I missed out on, my mind has changed about them. I think I’ve done what I wanted to do in life. In teen-age life.”



Violet, one thing you have to keep in mind is that abuse was generally "in the household". What happened in the house, stayed in the house. You didn't go to school and tell your friends what dad was doing when you went home. In fact, you presented an air of normalcy to your friends. Like Cat said, you feel like "there is something wrong with me". I used to think I was evil. I had to be to go through everything I went through. My friends never knew about my abuse in my childhood. I never told them, never let on to them. With them, I could be normal, or as normal as I could be with what was going on at home. If you were to ask several of my friends from back then if they thought I had a good home life, during that time, they would have said, "Yeah, her aunt and uncle were a little tough at times, but they were always nice when I was there. And her cousins, always seemed pretty cool, but I hardly hung around them." Only one friend ever witnessed anything and she never told anyone. I mean, my aunt and uncle lived in the same home with me, and they didn't even realize my oldest cousin would beat me up or what he was doing to me. I told once, when I was 10, and then again when I ran away at 14. Years later, my aunt asked me why I didn't tell her that my cousin was dragging me through the house by my hair, or choking me, or beating my face in floor. I told her, "I tried telling when I was 10 and you said you never wanted to hear of it happening again."

So, while his friends may know a part of his history, they may know all of it. Prince was great at separating himself -- I mean he presented an image to people. That's one of those dichotomy's for kids with trauma. We are very resilient, we are very silent, and you will only see what we want you to see.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #264 posted 10/02/18 6:04pm

violetcrush

benni said:

The Oprah Winfrey interview - Part III talks about his childhood.


Oprah: "Your father was an abusive man, right? That's what I've read, but I never know what's true or what's not."

Prince: "He had his moments."

Oprah: "What is the most autobiographical scene in Purple Rain for you?"

Prince: "I'll say that it was, uh, probably the scene with, um, me looking at my mother crying."

It sounds like there may have been some domestic violence in the home, or verbal abuse towards Mattie?

[Edited 10/2/18 17:45pm]

Yes, he stated in an ealrier interview that the most autobiographical part of the family dynamic was him watching his Mother crying. I would imagine there may have been some verbal and phyiscal abuse toward his Mother, especially if his Dad had been drinking.

*

In his 1999 interview with Larry King when he was asked about his Father being abusive or really tough on him, his response was, "well, he was a strong disciplinarian, but all Fathers were back then. It taught me right from wrong." So he was either expressing the truth in later years, or downplaying the situation. Hard to know for sure.

*

In his song Sacrifice Of Victor there is a lyric that seems to be describing his Father's hostility toward his Mother:

*

Mama held up her baby for protection
From a man with a strap in his hand
Ask the victor 'bout pain and rejection
You think he don't when he do understand

*

Seems to be describing his Mother using him as a shield so his Father would not hit her with a strap or belt. This may have only happened once, but that would be enough to leave a lasting memory.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #265 posted 10/02/18 6:08pm

benni

The other thing to keep in mind is that when you have the amount of dysfunction in your family, which is evidenced with the relationships he had with his siblings, when he talks about being estranged from his father, a sister that became an addict and ran away, there are reasons for that, and it isn't just because mom and dad wouldn't let you do something. A lot of kids are told "no" by parents and they don't grow up to be addicted to drugs, like Tyka did, have estranged parents and siblings, etc. Usually, there is something much deeper. What happens in the family, stays in the family. When I ran away, and finally told, my aunt asked me, "Why are doing this to the family?' It was different times back then, even more so in the 60s, early 70s.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #266 posted 10/02/18 6:21pm

thedance

avatar

this is such a bullshit and rubbish thread, I can't believe what the original poster wrote about our beloved HERO:

Prince : heart rest in peace, Prince worship


This poster here on the Org: piss off, go somewhere else with your disgraceful threads.


To you, tha OP: stfu no no no! nuts




(this, imho)

Prince 4Ever. heart
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #267 posted 10/02/18 6:28pm

thedance

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

Prince didn't owe you anything.

^ this, what a great response to the OP, point a finger at Prince, judge Prince,


But (OP)... be prepaired then, to be judged yourself.


Who are you to judge others, (you are an idiot imho & this thread shows it)

Prince 4Ever. heart
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #268 posted 10/02/18 7:34pm

rdhull

avatar

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



Why hasnt the OP posted after 7 pages?

Hmmmm

pimp2

'Cause he's laying back in the cut, laughin.

Lost your keys? check princevault..lost your relationhip? check princevault..they have all the answers
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #269 posted 10/02/18 7:36pm

rdhull

avatar

thedance said:

this is such a bullshit and rubbish thread, I can't believe what the original poster wrote about our beloved HERO:

Prince : heart rest in peace, Prince worship


This poster here on the Org: piss off, go somewhere else with your disgraceful threads.


To you, tha OP: stfu no no no! nuts




(this, imho)

lol

Lost your keys? check princevault..lost your relationhip? check princevault..they have all the answers
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 9 of 14 « First<5678910111213>Last »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Hurt and betrayed