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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Estate wants Cloud guitar creator to stop making replicas
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Reply #30 posted 12/07/18 12:18am

FunkyStrange

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Neversin said:





Everybody knows the bass was built by Jeff Levin (who created the "Sardonyx" and that "Cloud bass" is probably also called "Sardonyx"...) and that he sold them at the Manhattan guitar shop he worked at... Prince just asked Rusan to build him a guitar version...

Neversin.



Exactly

Even if Levin has a trademark on the bass version, (or Sardonyx, a company that hasn't existed for almost 40 years now), Rusan trademarked the guitar version.. unless Levin is going to fight it, which I highly doubt, I don't see how the greedy estate has a leg to to stand on...
[Edited 12/7/18 0:22am]
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Reply #31 posted 12/07/18 3:41am

bonatoc

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I dunno. It does not look like there was some major redesign from the original, to say the least.
I'm suprised the original designer of the Sardonyx didn't chime in,
but it really does look like an obscure (and long gone?) brand.

But why can't they see the benefit of an arrangement? Dave Rusan makes high-end versions of the instruments,
by looking at the finishings on his FB pics, it's a justified (all things relative) price tag.
But I'm disappointed when I look at the original bass, the design was already there.


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #32 posted 12/07/18 5:51am

JorisE73

bonatoc said:


But why can't they see the benefit of an arrangement? Dave Rusan makes high-end versions of the instruments,

Dave makes them 100% exactly like he made Prince's, the same wood, hardware, knob placements, truss rod, pickups, frets etc. so you get the exact guitar Prince played and not some knock-off made by some machine or some intern. I wish I had $8000 to spend.

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Reply #33 posted 12/07/18 8:28am

bonatoc

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JorisE73 said:

bonatoc said:


But why can't they see the benefit of an arrangement? Dave Rusan makes high-end versions of the instruments,

Dave makes them 100% exactly like he made Prince's, the same wood, hardware, knob placements, truss rod, pickups, frets etc. so you get the exact guitar Prince played and not some knock-off made by some machine or some intern. I wish I had $8000 to spend.


Exactly. Why can't they just keep on selling their mid-range replicas, and let musicians in their world?
I suppose it takes around a month to build one. After taxes, Dave just earns a living, and he's a real craftsman, he deserves every penny.
The guy is an artist. He makes unique pieces.

Don't sell the guitar shop just yet, Orville.
Huck'em (that's chinese).





The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #34 posted 12/07/18 11:18am

bonatoc

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« Rusan built two more Clouds for Prince, and a third for a Warner Bros. contest giveaway.
Over the years, folks who wanted a Cloud of their own would hire him to construct one,
which is a fairly intensive process. ”It’s a neck-through-body instrument,” Rusan explains,
unlike many guitars, where you can snap two separate parts together.
“You could probably make 10 Telecasters in the time it takes to make one of these.”
»


http://www.citypages.com/...BeVARxumbo

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #35 posted 12/07/18 12:57pm

onlyforaminute

JorisE73 said:

bonatoc said:


But why can't they see the benefit of an arrangement? Dave Rusan makes high-end versions of the instruments,

Dave makes them 100% exactly like he made Prince's, the same wood, hardware, knob placements, truss rod, pickups, frets etc. so you get the exact guitar Prince played and not some knock-off made by some machine or some intern. I wish I had $8000 to spend.



Yeah, I'm won over. That's craftmanship.

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #36 posted 12/07/18 1:27pm

TrivialPursuit

bonatoc said:

JorisE73 said:

Dave makes them 100% exactly like he made Prince's, the same wood, hardware, knob placements, truss rod, pickups, frets etc. so you get the exact guitar Prince played and not some knock-off made by some machine or some intern. I wish I had $8000 to spend.


Exactly. Why can't they just keep on selling their mid-range replicas, and let musicians in their world?
I suppose it takes around a month to build one. After taxes, Dave just earns a living, and he's a real craftsman, he deserves every penny.
The guy is an artist. He makes unique pieces.

Don't sell the guitar shop just yet, Orville.
Huck'em (that's chinese).






That purple is pretty, but that burnished red is sexy as fuck.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #37 posted 12/07/18 11:20pm

alandail

bonatoc said:

JorisE73 said:

Dave makes them 100% exactly like he made Prince's, the same wood, hardware, knob placements, truss rod, pickups, frets etc. so you get the exact guitar Prince played and not some knock-off made by some machine or some intern. I wish I had $8000 to spend.


Exactly. Why can't they just keep on selling their mid-range replicas, and let musicians in their world?

Because if they don't challenge the trademark on the guitar being sold as a "Prince" guitar, they can't sell it without being guilty of trademark violation.

Customized apparel and gifts - http://www.inktastic.com/
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Reply #38 posted 12/08/18 4:29am

bonatoc

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alandail said:

bonatoc said:


Exactly. Why can't they just keep on selling their mid-range replicas, and let musicians in their world?

Because if they don't challenge the trademark on the guitar being sold as a "Prince" guitar, they can't sell it without being guilty of trademark violation.


Or without paying a licence fee.

I didn't know there was so much money to make in guitars...

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #39 posted 12/08/18 5:44pm

tmo1965

alandail said:

PennyPurple said:

The guy owns the trademark. I don't see how the Estate has a leg to stand on.

The Estate is getting desperate, that's not a good sign. Things might be going down hill for them.

[Edited 12/4/18 18:12pm]

[Edited 12/4/18 19:04pm]

Just because a trademark is approved by the USPTO doesn't mean it will hold up as valid. They make plenty of mistakes. We sell printed apparel and run into this issue all of the time. We have people copy our products, file trademarks on their copies, then claim we are in violation of their trademark. They never win.

In this specific case it is odd that he filed for a trademarke this year for a guitar that has been associated with Prince for decades. The terms of the work for the original guitar are going to be important.

And the estate cares because they were selling cloud guitars.

After hearing a little more about this issue, the trademark may not be valid, because the design is not original. According to the article a few posts back and the photo of Andre Cymone playing a cloud bass guitar, this guy did not design the first cloud guitar. Prince probably gave this guy a picture or the bass guitar and told him to make a guitar that looks like that one. If the trademark is allowed to stand, would that mean that the Estate would have to pay this guy to sell cloud guitars? That does not sound fair. It's also fishy that this guy decides to trademark the cloud guitar 30+ years after it was made famous.

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Reply #40 posted 12/08/18 11:29pm

alandail

bonatoc said:

alandail said:

Because if they don't challenge the trademark on the guitar being sold as a "Prince" guitar, they can't sell it without being guilty of trademark violation.


Or without paying a licence fee.

I didn't know there was so much money to make in guitars...

There is no obligation to license a trademark. And this guy is using Prince's name to sell his guitars. He even used it in his latest trademark application. He really should work out a deal with the estate where he's able to still sell his replicas, but the estate gets the trademark and can also sell replicas like they were doing. Let the estate shut down all of the other people selling replicas because he certainly doesn't have the resources to do it himself.

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Reply #41 posted 12/09/18 7:35am

bonatoc

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alandail said:

bonatoc said:


Or without paying a licence fee.

I didn't know there was so much money to make in guitars...

There is no obligation to license a trademark. And this guy is using Prince's name to sell his guitars. He even used it in his latest trademark application. He really should work out a deal with the estate where he's able to still sell his replicas, but the estate gets the trademark and can also sell replicas like they were doing. Let the estate shut down all of the other people selling replicas because he certainly doesn't have the resources to do it himself.


Exactamundo. If I were the Estate I would keep the real thing, and go after the crap.
They should keep the more affordable model, some musicians are hobbyists
and you can't slap them with a eight thousand bill.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #42 posted 12/09/18 4:05pm

alandail

bonatoc said:

alandail said:

There is no obligation to license a trademark. And this guy is using Prince's name to sell his guitars. He even used it in his latest trademark application. He really should work out a deal with the estate where he's able to still sell his replicas, but the estate gets the trademark and can also sell replicas like they were doing. Let the estate shut down all of the other people selling replicas because he certainly doesn't have the resources to do it himself.


Exactamundo. If I were the Estate I would keep the real thing, and go after the crap.
They should keep the more affordable model, some musicians are hobbyists
and you can't slap them with a eight thousand bill.

I'd just like an offical one that doesn't cost a fortune to hang on my wall with my other prince stuff.

[Edited 12/9/18 16:06pm]

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