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Reply #30 posted 02/10/19 9:52am

SadAntenna

This is clearly a high-water mark of the Prince community output. Outstanding work!

Such a joy to read through, and the only thing to complain about, is why I can't read about the other 35 years of Prince recordings wink

It reminds me of Per Nilsens work. What ever happened to him?

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Reply #31 posted 02/10/19 10:37am

VioletWaiting

your time on this project is much appreciated. good reading for me to explore thisweek

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Reply #32 posted 02/11/19 1:51am

scififilmnerd

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SadAntenna said:

This is clearly a high-water mark of the Prince community output. Outstanding work!

Such a joy to read through, and the only thing to complain about, is why I can't read about the other 35 years of Prince recordings wink

It reminds me of Per Nilsens work. What ever happened to him?

Thank you. If my blog left you wanting more, then that's a good thing. Maybe one day I might just expand it with articles on the prince album, the Carmen Electra album and The NPG: Goldnigga - those would fit under the Prince Vs WB headline, so who knows...? hmmm I've certainly thought about it, but it's not in the near future. biggrin

Meanwhile I updated my blog with a few additional quotes from prince's 1997 Musician interview - nothing too spectacular. He compares Chaos And Disorder to The Black Album, talks a bit about In This Bed I Scream and such. Also added an additional quote about The Dawn from Minnesota Monthly. biggrin

I loved Per Nilsens book. It's a must-read book for every Prince fan. I had the pleasure of briefly meeting him when The Nude Tour hit Sweden. Back then he was involved with Uptown Magazine. I loved that mag. I don't know what he's up to now. confused

[Edited 2/11/19 6:35am]

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Reply #33 posted 02/13/19 8:41am

BartVanHemelen

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Hmmm, was looking for something completely different and encountered a small article from Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad from Wednesday 19 July 1995, written by Hans-Maarten Post. He mentions an interview he had with Sonny T. in Amsterdam on Monday 17 July, in which Sonny claims that Prince and Warners had made nice, and that TGE would be released via Warners in September.

.

Now I'm wondering when the news about TGE being released was revealed publicly, considering Sonny seems to refer to the May meeting you mention.

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Reply #34 posted 02/14/19 3:08am

scififilmnerd

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BartVanHemelen said:

Hmmm, was looking for something completely different and encountered a small article from Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad from Wednesday 19 July 1995, written by Hans-Maarten Post. He mentions an interview he had with Sonny T. in Amsterdam on Monday 17 July, in which Sonny claims that Prince and Warners had made nice, and that TGE would be released via Warners in September.

.

Now I'm wondering when the news about TGE being released was revealed publicly, considering Sonny seems to refer to the May meeting you mention.

Well, I'm not sure exactly when the release date was announced, but it was printed on the cover for The Versace Experience, so it must have been made by 8 July - before the Sonny T. interview you mention. smile

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Reply #35 posted 02/14/19 3:22am

scififilmnerd

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I used to go to Prince In Print for prince interviews and reviews of his albums, but when I wanted to link to the site in the Sources section of my blog, I discovered that access to the site was now blocked by a pop-up that cannot be closed and which one does NOT want to click on. omfg

So I linked to Prince Interview Archive instead and noticed some interviews there that I hadn't seen on Prince In Print, so I have only just now finished reading all the 1994-2006 interviews on Prince Interview Archive. That's why there have been minor additions made to my blog since publication. wink

The last things I added were prince talking about Chaos And Disorder being recorded in a week, the lack of promotion for the Letitgo single and him mentioning that the song Gold was the best song, he'd ever recorded. I also found a more detailed quote about the blueprint for Emancipation and deleted the old quote about that. biggrin

But now I'm wondering - with Prince In Print gone - where would I go to find reviews about the Prince And The New Power Generation: prince album if I decide to write about that album? hmmm

[Edited 2/14/19 3:24am]

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Reply #36 posted 02/14/19 3:36am

BartVanHemelen

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scififilmnerd said:

I used to go to Prince In Print for prince interviews and reviews of his albums, but when I wanted to link to the site in the Sources section of my blog, I discovered that access to the site was now blocked by a pop-up that cannot be closed and which one does NOT want to click on. omfg

So I linked to Prince Interview Archive instead and noticed some interviews there that I hadn't seen on Prince In Print, so I have only just now finished reading all the 1994-2006 interviews on Prince Interview Archive. That's why there have been minor additions made to my blog since publication. wink

The last things I added were prince talking about Chaos And Disorder being recorded in a week, the lack of promotion for the Letitgo single and him mentioning that the song Gold was the best song, he'd ever recorded. I also found a more detailed quote about the blueprint for Emancipation and deleted the old quote about that. biggrin

But now I'm wondering - with Prince In Print gone - where would I go to find reviews about the Prince And The New Power Generation: prince album if I decide to write about that album? hmmm

[Edited 2/14/19 3:24am]

.

Try older archived versions @ https://web.archive.org/w...ripod.com/ .

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #37 posted 02/14/19 3:57am

thievesinthete
mple

Thanks so much for all your amazing work, scifi! 1993-96 is my favorite period and your articles have been nothing short of a gift from on high. I have returned to them many times over the years, and will undoubtedly be doing so again now that they've been updated. I'll echo some of the other members here in asking for an updated chronology at the end of each article. The blog posts (amazing as they are) feel a bit incomplete without them. Peace and be wild!

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Reply #38 posted 02/14/19 4:29am

databank

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scififilmnerd said:

I used to go to Prince In Print for prince interviews and reviews of his albums, but when I wanted to link to the site in the Sources section of my blog, I discovered that access to the site was now blocked by a pop-up that cannot be closed and which one does NOT want to click on. omfg

So I linked to Prince Interview Archive instead and noticed some interviews there that I hadn't seen on Prince In Print, so I have only just now finished reading all the 1994-2006 interviews on Prince Interview Archive. That's why there have been minor additions made to my blog since publication. wink

The last things I added were prince talking about Chaos And Disorder being recorded in a week, the lack of promotion for the Letitgo single and him mentioning that the song Gold was the best song, he'd ever recorded. I also found a more detailed quote about the blueprint for Emancipation and deleted the old quote about that. biggrin

But now I'm wondering - with Prince In Print gone - where would I go to find reviews about the Prince And The New Power Generation: prince album if I decide to write about that album? hmmm

[Edited 2/14/19 3:24am]

I still haven't gotten around reading it all in detail but skimming thru it I have 2 questions:

.

I'm a bit confused about the two Same December videos. You say Prince shot a new video in 1996 but Princevault says it has the same length as the one on YT and only has "slightly different images". Hell, I didn't even know that it had been released to TV at the time (Pvault is ambiguous as to whether it has, but I haven't checked the Vault book)... Do you have both versions? How are they different?

.

You make no mention of the alleged original 1993/12/06 limited release of the Undertaker video, is it on purpose?

It's mentioned in the Vault book but not on Princevault, and for years I doubted its existence because despite a thousand copies made according to the Vault, I couldn't find a single copy ever sold online, nor anyone on the Org to admit they had it. However, after many queries, an orger finally claimed to have a copy of it, said they had never watched it (it was obviously not purchased in 93 but later, I assume anyone who would have ordered it in 93 would have watched it) but that the label on the cassette said 36 minutes, which seems to corroborate the fact that it was entirely similar to the audio version, which IIRC is also what the Vault says. Unfortunately this Orger didn't post a picture so they could have made it up (or it could be a NPG Store copy), but at the time whomever it was seemed sincere.

To make things more complicated there is also a circulating digital version of it credited to the Symbol (not Prince) in the opening and ending credits, that features the Marcil footage but maintains most of the original audio version including Dolphin, and no one can tell where this intermediate version comes from (it could also be the NPG Store version).

So the evidence in favor of its existence is the Vault mention (Uptown usually knew their shit), the exact release date being available (where could it come from?) and this one person who claimed to have a copy.

The evidence against it is the fact that Princevault apparently do not acknowledge its existence and that save this one Orger, it seems there isn't a person in the world who has it or knows someone who does.

And if it exists we aren't entirely sure if it's the audio version or early Marcil edit.

After much debate, I had finally decided to put it on my website (with a note explaining the context and the confusion around its existence), but I still have strong doubts.

What's your take on this?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #39 posted 02/14/19 6:28am

Thibaut

Very interesting article. I`d say a bit too subjective though.

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Reply #40 posted 02/14/19 7:30am

BartVanHemelen

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databank said:

You make no mention of the alleged original 1993/12/06 limited release of the Undertaker video, is it on purpose?

It's mentioned in the Vault book but not on Princevault, and for years I doubted its existence because despite a thousand copies made according to the Vault, I couldn't find a single copy ever sold online, nor anyone on the Org to admit they had it. However, after many queries, an orger finally claimed to have a copy of it, said they had never watched it (it was obviously not purchased in 93 but later, I assume anyone who would have ordered it in 93 would have watched it) but that the label on the cassette said 36 minutes, which seems to corroborate the fact that it was entirely similar to the audio version, which IIRC is also what the Vault says. Unfortunately this Orger didn't post a picture so they could have made it up (or it could be a NPG Store copy), but at the time whomever it was seemed sincere.

To make things more complicated there is also a circulating digital version of it credited to the Symbol (not Prince) in the opening and ending credits, that features the Marcil footage but maintains most of the original audio version including Dolphin, and no one can tell where this intermediate version comes from (it could also be the NPG Store version).

So the evidence in favor of its existence is the Vault mention (Uptown usually knew their shit), the exact release date being available (where could it come from?) and this one person who claimed to have a copy.

The evidence against it is the fact that Princevault apparently do not acknowledge its existence and that save this one Orger, it seems there isn't a person in the world who has it or knows someone who does.

And if it exists we aren't entirely sure if it's the audio version or early Marcil edit.

After much debate, I had finally decided to put it on my website (with a note explaining the context and the confusion around its existence), but I still have strong doubts.

What's your take on this?

.

FYI: https://web.archive.org/w...taker.html .

.

On October 8th 1993, the NPG store invited visitors to view a new concert film, directed by Parris Patton. Less than 50 fans got the chance to see the film (presented by "Bootleg Videos") wich features General Hospital (US TV series) actress Vanessa Marcill, "The Paisley Park Power Trio" (Prince, Michael B and Sonny T), and Steve, as the receptionist. After the showing, questionares were given out and the attendants were asked of their opinions and if they would buy it if it was released as a video. Obvious a success, on December 6th, the NPG store began taking orders for Prince's home video The Undertaker,. The video was a limited edition of 1000 copies at $50 each. Word about this spread very quickly with no promotion at all and the videos sold out at once. More and more demands came by the fans, so The Undertaker were officially released by Warner Music Vision in the UK on March 6th 1994 and later in March in the rest of Europe and Japan, on both VHS and Laser Disc, with art direction and design by B, J.C. Munson and C. Hermes.

.

Wondering if there was reports of this in The prince Family newsletter at the time. Also, you'd expect this original version to be widely bootlegged if it was significantly different.

.

BTW did you see this: https://recordmecca.com/i...master-cd/ ?

.

[Edited 2/14/19 7:44am]

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It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #41 posted 02/15/19 7:28am

scififilmnerd

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databank said:

I'm a bit confused about the two Same December videos. You say Prince shot a new video in 1996 but Princevault says it has the same length as the one on YT and only has "slightly different images". Hell, I didn't even know that it had been released to TV at the time (Pvault is ambiguous as to whether it has, but I haven't checked the Vault book)... Do you have both versions? How are they different?



I wrote that there are two versions of the video because that's what I read in Uptown Presents Days of Wild. I have only seen the latter which was shown on TV in 1996. I always assumed the first version was just the performance of the song and then the second version had the dramatic footage with the record industry man added because The NPG had been disbanded by then. I will change it from "new video" to "new version of the video" as soon as possible.wink
[Edited 2/15/19 14:58pm]
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Reply #42 posted 02/15/19 8:21am

scififilmnerd

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BartVanHemelen said:



databank said:



You make no mention of the alleged original 1993/12/06 limited release of the Undertaker video, is it on purpose?



.


FYI: https://web.archive.org/w...taker.html .


.



On October 8th 1993, the NPG store invited visitors to view a new concert film, directed by Parris Patton. Less than 50 fans got the chance to see the film (presented by "Bootleg Videos") wich features General Hospital (US TV series) actress Vanessa Marcill, "The Paisley Park Power Trio" (Prince, Michael B and Sonny T), and Steve, as the receptionist. After the showing, questionares were given out and the attendants were asked of their opinions and if they would buy it if it was released as a video. Obvious a success, on December 6th, the NPG store began taking orders for Prince's home video The Undertaker,. The video was a limited edition of 1000 copies at $50 each. Word about this spread very quickly with no promotion at all and the videos sold out at once. More and more demands came by the fans, so The Undertaker were officially released by Warner Music Vision in the UK on March 6th 1994 and later in March in the rest of Europe and Japan, on both VHS and Laser Disc, with art direction and design by B, J.C. Munson and C. Hermes.




I didn't know there had been a limited release prior to the official one. Thanks for the information, Bart. I'll add it to my blog as soon as possible. smile
[Edited 2/15/19 8:29am]
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Reply #43 posted 02/15/19 8:35am

BartVanHemelen

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scififilmnerd said:

BartVanHemelen said:

I didn't know there had been a limited release prior to the official one. Thanks for the information, Bart. I'll add it to my blog as soon as possible. smile [Edited 2/15/19 8:29am]

.

I don't know if this story is true, though. I can't recall ever having heard of this, but then it was 25+ years ago so I might have forgotten.

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It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #44 posted 02/16/19 10:02am

Rzeplica

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I had both versions of "The Same December" on vhs long ago. Same video, but one was missing the cgi graphics. I'm pretty sure that was the only difference, but it's been forever
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Reply #45 posted 02/17/19 2:25am

databank

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Rzeplica said:

I had both versions of "The Same December" on vhs long ago. Same video, but one was missing the cgi graphics. I'm pretty sure that was the only difference, but it's been forever

That would explain it. So the one on YT is the June 1996 version aired on TV?

Was the original ever aired? Was your copy from TV or a bootleg?

Thx hug

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Reply #46 posted 02/17/19 2:52am

databank

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scififilmnerd said:

BartVanHemelen said:

I didn't know there had been a limited release prior to the official one. Thanks for the information, Bart. I'll add it to my blog as soon as possible. smile [Edited 2/15/19 8:29am]

Thx Bart, you're always useful when it comes to digging old websites biggrin

Scifi my problem is the same as Bart's: IDK whether the story is true. For one thing they date the WB release 1994 instead of 1995, but let's assume it's a mere typo and they know their shit. What of the rest?

.

I did some more detective work and I could trace the original text about NPG STore taking orders and the video being "sold out at once" in Uptown#12, in the "Crucial" brief news. Then going back to Uptown #11, they briefly describe the film and mention the 10/08 public showing, and guess what it clearly describes the Vanessa Marcil scenes, so whatever was shown and/or sold in late 1993 was the bootleg version on the Ultimate Undertaker bootleg and cannot possibly have been 36 mn since the film versions are about 40mn long.

.

What does it say about that one and only person who claimed to have it and that it was labeled "36 mn"? Either what they had was genuine mislabeled based on the audio version's length, or it was a bootleg, or they were lying. I can't tell which it is.

.

So admitting it was really sold, I'll have to correct my entry to make it reflect the bootleg video, which makes the 36 mn audio version still entirely unreleased to this day in either format.

.

Regardless, 1000 copies is a lot and whomever purchased them must have known they had a collector's item in their hand. So I keep asking the question: where are those 1000 cassettes, where are the pictures, where are the owners, where are the eBay auctions?

.

Regardless, I'll still take Uptown Magazine's word until proven wrong (which could be the case if Pvault's omission is on purpose and not accidental, I'll have to ask them eventually), so Scififilmnerd I think it's worth mentioning in your article, but I suggest you take the same precautions I did and mention the fact that there's a bit of a mystery around this release wink

.

Hopefully someone will read this and come-up with more info.

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Reply #47 posted 02/18/19 6:45am

BartVanHemelen

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databank said:

scififilmnerd said:

BartVanHemelen said: I didn't know there had been a limited release prior to the official one. Thanks for the information, Bart. I'll add it to my blog as soon as possible. smile [Edited 2/15/19 8:29am]

Thx Bart, you're always useful when it comes to digging old websites biggrin

Scifi my problem is the same as Bart's: IDK whether the story is true. For one thing they date the WB release 1994 instead of 1995, but let's assume it's a mere typo and they know their shit. What of the rest?

.

I did some more detective work and I could trace the original text about NPG STore taking orders and the video being "sold out at once" in Uptown#12, in the "Crucial" brief news. Then going back to Uptown #11, they briefly describe the film and mention the 10/08 public showing, and guess what it clearly describes the Vanessa Marcil scenes, so whatever was shown and/or sold in late 1993 was the bootleg version on the Ultimate Undertaker bootleg and cannot possibly have been 36 mn since the film versions are about 40mn long.

.

What does it say about that one and only person who claimed to have it and that it was labeled "36 mn"? Either what they had was genuine mislabeled based on the audio version's length, or it was a bootleg, or they were lying. I can't tell which it is.

.

So admitting it was really sold, I'll have to correct my entry to make it reflect the bootleg video, which makes the 36 mn audio version still entirely unreleased to this day in either format.

.

Regardless, 1000 copies is a lot and whomever purchased them must have known they had a collector's item in their hand. So I keep asking the question: where are those 1000 cassettes, where are the pictures, where are the owners, where are the eBay auctions?

.

Regardless, I'll still take Uptown Magazine's word until proven wrong (which could be the case if Pvault's omission is on purpose and not accidental, I'll have to ask them eventually), so Scififilmnerd I think it's worth mentioning in your article, but I suggest you take the same precautions I did and mention the fact that there's a bit of a mystery around this release wink

.

Hopefully someone will read this and come-up with more info.

.

I'll try to check The Prince Family's newsletters when I have some time. And yes, you'd think that at least one of those tapes would have been bootlegged to death. There have been people on the Org who've talked about that viewing party, so perhaps that part is real, but them taking orders and producing 1000 tapes etc. seems like a work of fiction.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #48 posted 02/19/19 12:53am

databank

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Thx Bart, you're always useful when it comes to digging old websites biggrin

Scifi my problem is the same as Bart's: IDK whether the story is true. For one thing they date the WB release 1994 instead of 1995, but let's assume it's a mere typo and they know their shit. What of the rest?

.

I did some more detective work and I could trace the original text about NPG STore taking orders and the video being "sold out at once" in Uptown#12, in the "Crucial" brief news. Then going back to Uptown #11, they briefly describe the film and mention the 10/08 public showing, and guess what it clearly describes the Vanessa Marcil scenes, so whatever was shown and/or sold in late 1993 was the bootleg version on the Ultimate Undertaker bootleg and cannot possibly have been 36 mn since the film versions are about 40mn long.

.

What does it say about that one and only person who claimed to have it and that it was labeled "36 mn"? Either what they had was genuine mislabeled based on the audio version's length, or it was a bootleg, or they were lying. I can't tell which it is.

.

So admitting it was really sold, I'll have to correct my entry to make it reflect the bootleg video, which makes the 36 mn audio version still entirely unreleased to this day in either format.

.

Regardless, 1000 copies is a lot and whomever purchased them must have known they had a collector's item in their hand. So I keep asking the question: where are those 1000 cassettes, where are the pictures, where are the owners, where are the eBay auctions?

.

Regardless, I'll still take Uptown Magazine's word until proven wrong (which could be the case if Pvault's omission is on purpose and not accidental, I'll have to ask them eventually), so Scififilmnerd I think it's worth mentioning in your article, but I suggest you take the same precautions I did and mention the fact that there's a bit of a mystery around this release wink

.

Hopefully someone will read this and come-up with more info.

.

I'll try to check The Prince Family's newsletters when I have some time. And yes, you'd think that at least one of those tapes would have been bootlegged to death. There have been people on the Org who've talked about that viewing party, so perhaps that part is real, but them taking orders and producing 1000 tapes etc. seems like a work of fiction.

OK, it gets worse. I've just looked again in the Vault book and here's what it says:

"This is the original version of The Urukrtakn- film,which was slightly revised for the "official" 1995 release. Thevideo was a limired edition of 1,000 copies at $50 each. TheoriginaJ version focuses on the live performance, omitting thefootage of Yanessa Marcil. It contains the full "Poorgoo" (aportion of which was edited our on rhe 1995 version of rhefilm) and a full live version of "Dolphin" (instead ofoverdub·bing rbe ending wirh rhe scudio recording of rhe song, as wasdone on the 1995 version of the film)."

No Marcil and 36 minutes, they say, so in this case The Vault contradicts earlier issues of Uptown, and Princevault does not acknowledge either versions.

This is driving me crazy.

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Reply #49 posted 02/20/19 1:39pm

scififilmnerd

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"As soon as possible" was today. biggrin

I corrected the mention of the Same December video and mentioned the 1993 Undertaker showing at the NPG store and decided not to mention any limited release at all. smile

I also added Chaka Khan's version of her first meeting with Prince to prince's recollection at the end of Chapter 9. biggrin

And someone posted the very first comment (to the Introduction) on the blog. Love it! biggrin

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Reply #50 posted 02/21/19 2:38am

BartVanHemelen

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scififilmnerd said:

I also added Chaka Khan's version of her first meeting with Prince to prince's recollection at the end of Chapter 9. biggrin

.

Why not also add Chaka's plans for a joint Prince-Miles Davis collaboration? See http://prince.org/msg/7/458298 .

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Reply #51 posted 02/21/19 3:04am

scififilmnerd

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BartVanHemelen said:

scififilmnerd said:

I also added Chaka Khan's version of her first meeting with Prince to prince's recollection at the end of Chapter 9. biggrin

.

Why not also add Chaka's plans for a joint Prince-Miles Davis collaboration? See http://prince.org/msg/7/458298 .

I had thought of it and, you know, just generally extending the Chaka Khan chapter. There's some great quotes about Come 2 My House from H.M. Buff and Morris Hayes I could use. I think I'll get right on it because ever since making the blog public, I haven't been able to stop listening to Come 2 My House. biggrin

[Edited 2/21/19 3:05am]

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Reply #52 posted 02/22/19 3:09am

scififilmnerd

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And voila: I just added three passages to the Chaka Khan chapter! Please enjoy the reading experience. biggrin

P.S. On second thought, I moved the text to the beginning of the chapter so it serves as an introduction to the interview. I think it works better that way. smile

[Edited 2/22/19 7:43am]

rainbow woot! FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION! woot! rainbow
rainbow woot! FREE THE 1994 CHAOS AND DISORDER CONFIGURATION woot! rainbow
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Reply #53 posted 02/23/19 11:12am

BartVanHemelen

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On the subject of The Undertaker: I've quickly gone through the issues of The Prince Family newsletter from late 1993-early 1994 and have found entries in three issues. I've taken some not that great pictures of the relevant parts (in one case a large text that I have needed to cut up in three photos), but they should be readable on a decent size screen. You can download them here: https://we.tl/t-QRv2WhKHcS .

.

The filename of each image is basically the source issue, e.g. "The Prince Family - Vol. 2 Issue No. 01 - 1994-01-08 - " The last part is the publication date in the YYYY-MM-DD format. The numbers after that part are the name of the picture, so they're irrelevant except that in the split up image they indicate the order of the parts.

.

Pay particular attention to the final entry (from "The Prince Family - Vol. 2 Issue No. 01 - 1994-01-08"):

.

GNcx7aH.jpg

.

(This is BTW the worst pic.)

.

Now, if you read that, you'll notice that TU was offered for order by the NPG Store and then placed on "permanent hold", confirming my belief that they never actually released this tape. Now, I gotta say that I only quickly looked through the next couple of issues and didn't see a mention and then I stopped, but by then we are in early 1994 and TMBGITW is released etc. and I very much doubt this video got released by then or later.

.

(Such a shame that we don't have all those issues of TPF scanned and OCR'ed and available online as searchable text and indexed etc. because it genuinely is a treasure trove of information.)

.

[Edited 2/23/19 11:19am]

[Edited 2/23/19 11:20am]

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #54 posted 02/23/19 5:34pm

databank

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BartVanHemelen said:

On the subject of The Undertaker: I've quickly gone through the issues of The Prince Family newsletter from late 1993-early 1994 and have found entries in three issues. I've taken some not that great pictures of the relevant parts (in one case a large text that I have needed to cut up in three photos), but they should be readable on a decent size screen. You can download them here: https://we.tl/t-QRv2WhKHcS .

.

The filename of each image is basically the source issue, e.g. "The Prince Family - Vol. 2 Issue No. 01 - 1994-01-08 - " The last part is the publication date in the YYYY-MM-DD format. The numbers after that part are the name of the picture, so they're irrelevant except that in the split up image they indicate the order of the parts.

.

Pay particular attention to the final entry (from "The Prince Family - Vol. 2 Issue No. 01 - 1994-01-08"):

.

GNcx7aH.jpg

.

(This is BTW the worst pic.)

.

Now, if you read that, you'll notice that TU was offered for order by the NPG Store and then placed on "permanent hold", confirming my belief that they never actually released this tape. Now, I gotta say that I only quickly looked through the next couple of issues and didn't see a mention and then I stopped, but by then we are in early 1994 and TMBGITW is released etc. and I very much doubt this video got released by then or later.

.

(Such a shame that we don't have all those issues of TPF scanned and OCR'ed and available online as searchable text and indexed etc. because it genuinely is a treasure trove of information.)

.

[Edited 2/23/19 11:19am]

[Edited 2/23/19 11:20am]

Bart I couldn't thank you enough, you rock! hug You've helped me solve a problem that I've been trying to figure out for nearly a decade!!

.

I unfortunately never had access to this newsletter. Maybe one day someone will scan every issue and put them online the way it was done with the Vault book. That'd be nice.

.

I agree with you conclusions. What we can I think say is that:

1/ The original Uptown info adds-up with this when it comes to the Vanessa Marcil content, and this couldn't have been made up. Therefore, the Vault book as well as that one orger claiming to have the cassette were obviously mistaken: there was never a 36 mn video version of The Undertaker similar to the audio version. The version that was shown at the NPG Store is clearly the one that is on the Ultimate Undertaker bootleg, i.e. credited to the symbol instead of Prince, with Poorgoo and Dolphin intact and otherwisely similar to the 1995 version.

2/ The fact that orders were put on hold explains why none of those alleged 1000 cassettes has ever surfaced. It is likely that Princevault realized that and that it's the reason why they make no mention of it. Shelving projects, even after announcing them, is something Prince had the habit of doing over and over, so nothing surprising here. Therefore, we can be pretty sure that the 1993 release never happened and that the 1995 release is the one and only official release of that album so far.

.

Like you say there is still a small margin for doubt regarding an eventual release later in 1994, but weighting all the evidence at hand, I think it's really safe to assume that no such thing happened.

.

I still wonder what happened that made Uptown believe that the release had happened and was 36 minutes-long when they wrote the Vault book, but my guess is that either they simply knew about the planned release and weren't aware of the cancellation, or that they or one of their contacts had a copy of the original version before it was widely bootlegged, and believed it was a released product. That Ultimate bootleg has to come from a cassette that leaked from Glam Slam Club or an NPG Store or Paisley Park, much like 10,000 Wallpaper, and it's likely someone in Uptown's circles had a copy early on. It was once reported here that the NPG Store in London showed it as well, and I'm quite certain that this one cassette never made it back to the USA lol

This still wouldn't explain why they said it was similar to the audio version but errors are unavoidable in a project that contains that much data. As for that Orger who claimed to have it, IDK. Maybe he had that same NPG Store cassette and length was mislabeled, or he had a copy of a copy of a copy that was mislabeled, or he didn't have it at all and it was BS.

.

So I believe we can consider the matter settled unless further evidence contradict our conclusions, and I shall remove the entry from my website ASAP.

.

I really like being able to do this kind of detective work with the likes of you and Scififiolmnerd. I wish there were more of us on the Org, kind of like HQ was back in the days smile

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #55 posted 02/24/19 8:16am

scififilmnerd

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thievesinthetemple said:

Thanks so much for all your amazing work, scifi! 1993-96 is my favorite period and your articles have been nothing short of a gift from on high. I have returned to them many times over the years, and will undoubtedly be doing so again now that they've been updated. I'll echo some of the other members here in asking for an updated chronology at the end of each article. The blog posts (amazing as they are) feel a bit incomplete without them. Peace and be wild!

Thank you very much, Thieves, and yes, please return to my blog occassionally, so you can notice all the little things I add. biggrin

Why, just today I added a couple of pictures (of the Brian's Mix cassette and the rare 1994 Mayte single) and this quote to the Chaka Khan chapter:

“Actually, the Artist was instrumental in helping me to leave Warner (…) in offering some of his legal staff to help me to get freed up,” Chaka Khan revealed to BET Tonight with Tavis Smiley in October 1998. “Soon after that – within months – I was free, and we were in the studio working on a CD.”

biggrin

[Edited 2/24/19 13:06pm]

rainbow woot! FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION! woot! rainbow
rainbow woot! FREE THE 1994 CHAOS AND DISORDER CONFIGURATION woot! rainbow
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Reply #56 posted 02/28/19 1:28pm

scififilmnerd

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Thibaut said:

Very interesting article. I`d say a bit too subjective though.

Oh, I tried cutting down on that (compared to the earlier editions published on Prince.org) cuz I didn't want to scare readers away who might actually like the things I dislike, but I also wanted to get my opinion in there, so... a delicate balance had to be sought. neutral

Anyway, I spent the last week proofreading the entire blog, adding mention of the US Space single and the Don't Talk 2 Strangers single plus a handfull of pictures of the more rare releases - promos, cassettes and such (it's amazing what one can find on Google). biggrin

[Edited 2/28/19 13:30pm]

rainbow woot! FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION! woot! rainbow
rainbow woot! FREE THE 1994 CHAOS AND DISORDER CONFIGURATION woot! rainbow
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Reply #57 posted 02/28/19 10:09pm

databank

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scififilmnerd said:

Thibaut said:

Very interesting article. I`d say a bit too subjective though.

Oh, I tried cutting down on that (compared to the earlier editions published on Prince.org) cuz I didn't want to scare readers away who might actually like the things I dislike, but I also wanted to get my opinion in there, so... a delicate balance had to be sought. neutral

Anyway, I spent the last week proofreading the entire blog, adding mention of the US Space single and the Don't Talk 2 Strangers single plus a handfull of pictures of the more rare releases - promos, cassettes and such (it's amazing what one can find on Google). biggrin

[Edited 2/28/19 13:30pm]

Duane addressed this once: that hard to find balance between giving infos and giving your opinion. His conclusion was that pure neutrality is impossible anyway, and others have said that working hard to research topics entitles one to an opinion.

Personally I like reviews when the opinion is supported by an analysis of the work and strong argumentation, I like reviews when they help me to understand the work better and I respect the skill of analyzing and reviewing a work of art a lot because I'm not so good at it myself. I have to admit that if someone just throws in that a piece of work is good or weak out of the blue, or just writes a one paragraph-long review like you often see on sites such as Allmusic, I often find it irritating because it doesn't help me at all.

But I respect the fact that you had it in mind and tried to find a balance, and it doesn't take anything away from the quality of the articles and how informative they are hug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > 10 years later: Thoroughly revised and updated Ultimate Come, Gold, etc. articles!